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 Post subject: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Flu-pocalypse’ Predicted Due To Ineffective Flu Shots, Doctors Say
November 30, 2017 4:50 PM
Filed Under: Australia, Chris Melore, flu season, Flu Shots, Influenza, Talkers, Vaccine

CBS Local — U.S. health officials are bracing for a devastating flu season this winter that many people won’t even be able to ward off with their annual flu shot.

The possibility of a “flu-pocalypse” is being talked about after record numbers of patients were diagnosed with influenza in Australia, whose flu season just ended. In a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), a group of infectious disease doctors say that Australia’s vaccination against the flu was only effective 10 percent of the time this year.

“What happened is, in the development of the vaccine, as we grow it in eggs, the virus itself mutated a bit, so that there was almost an accidental mismatch purely on the basis of the virus trying to adapt itself to growing in eggs,” Dr. Anthony Fauci told WTOP. “That’s what happened in Australia and it is likely that that’s what we’re going to see here.”

The doctors added that the ineffective shots had the lowest rate of success in preventing influenza A. The flu strain – also known as H3N2 – “historically is always the worse influenza,” according to Dr. Fauci and can result in severe illness and possibly death in at-risk patients. Among the most at risk for complications from the flu include seniors over 65 years old, children under age five, and pregnant women.


Australia’s 10 percent success rate is a major blow to the hopes of Americans lining up for flu shots this year. In 2016, the NEJM reports that flu shots were able to stop H3N2 34 percent of the time.


While the outlook for the U.S. flu season is grim, Dr. Fauci maintained that Americans should still take the time to get a vaccination. “Vaccines remain a valuable public health tool, and it is always better to get vaccinated than not to get vaccinated.” According to the CDC, 40,000 lives were saved by flu vaccines from 2005 to 2014.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:39 pm 
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I strongly recommend not getting the flu this year. I always get the jabs, and this is the first year in which I have had the flu(or an appalling cold) since I started getting the jabs.

It put my wife out of action for 2 weeks, and I got off with just 5 days.


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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:52 pm 
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At least you can tell the medics you have had your 'seasonal flu' shot AND your 'decadal' pneumonia vaccination.

These give valuable 'triage' points that, in a worst case scenario, may save your life...

Translated, the crash-cart team treat you rather than the vacc-denier on next gurney...

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Greg, I had the flu shot and had subsequently a very heavy cold for ove two weeks. At one point I lost my voice. Some others at work who opted for the work supplied jabs had similar experiences.

Jonathan


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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:08 pm 
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I had my flu jab, and it didn't bother me. I only hope they got it right this year.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:46 pm 
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IIRC, it is a fair match.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:38 pm 
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JBG wrote:
Greg, I had the flu shot and had subsequently a very heavy cold for ove two weeks. At one point I lost my voice. Some others at work who opted for the work supplied jabs had similar experiences.

Jonathan

Sounds more like you were all infected by a common plaguemunk at work.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Ok, flu vaccine formulations are a very inexact science. In the US, the vaccine formulation has to be decided upon in February for the coming flu season. Traditionally, it was a trivalent formulation - 2 Influenza A (lately H1N1 and H3N2) and then one Influenza B virus. Quadravalents added a second Influenza B.

If the crystal ball gazing was successful, you get a good vaccine. If not, you don't.

Now, the effectiveness of the vaccine depends a lot on what strains are circulating, and what changed between formulation and exposure. We have seen lower effectiveness with H3N2 formulations in general than with H1N1, or the Influenza B strains. That seems to be the root of the issue in Australia, where most of the diagnosed influenza is H3N2. What we do not know yet is whether this is because H3N2 is the predominant strain people are exposed to, or because they are better protectrd against the others.

As for the shot making you sick, we get lots of people who report that anecdotaly. Proving it was the shot, and not esomething else in your life, is a very different beast. Especially since we no longer use 'live' vaccine, since the quadravalent FluMist formulations showed themselves to be completely ineffective.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 am 
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Just to clarify what is meant by "live" vaccine in this case since viruses themselves are not living organisms.

"Live" vaccines are fully infectious forms of the bug in question that have had their virulence turned down considerably. Therefore they set up shop and cause a full-scale immunological response but generally don't cause illness. With the full-scale immune response the adaptive immune system has a chance to create antibodies to the bug in question, hence if the full-strength version comes a-knocking the adaptive immune system can spring straight into action and generally control the infection. "Killed" forms of the bug are something from the but, often a membrane protein or similar which causes an immunological response to create antibodies but are not infectious.

The problem with such live vaccines is that they cannot be used on the immunoligically compromised since even the weakened bug would then cause a full-scale, and probably lethal infection.

I say viruses in and of themselves are not living organisms because they cannot reproduce on their own. It is only when the virion encounters the cell and infects it that reproduction can take place.


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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:01 pm 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_virus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavirus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virophage

Since recent discovery of these 'giant' & mega' virus types, plus parasitic virophages (!!), the situation is rather less clear than it was...

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
At least you can tell the medics you have had your 'seasonal flu' shot AND your 'decadal' pneumonia vaccination.

These give valuable 'triage' points that, in a worst case scenario, may save your life...

Translated, the crash-cart team treat you rather than the vacc-denier on next gurney...


I'd really, really hope that no team of paramedics would make triage decisions for, say, a car crash, based on whether or not you had a jab for flu. That way lies dangerous things.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:52 pm 
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The Bushranger wrote:
Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
At least you can tell the medics you have had your 'seasonal flu' shot AND your 'decadal' pneumonia vaccination.

These give valuable 'triage' points that, in a worst case scenario, may save your life...

Translated, the crash-cart team treat you rather than the vacc-denier on next gurney...


I'd really, really hope that no team of paramedics would make triage decisions for, say, a car crash, based on whether or not you had a jab for flu. That way lies dangerous things.

In the US, they wouldn't know. Paramedics generally do not have access to your medical record, unless you're carrying it with you. Hell, depending on where you got it, your physician may not even know, unless you told 'em. The state vaccine registries are very closely controlled.

So no, that won't be happening in the US.

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 pm 
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But that is so triage.

Like a maxed-out 'Intensive Care Unit' refusing certain folk as they don't meet enough potential viability criteria...

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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_virus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavirus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virophage

Since recent discovery of these 'giant' & mega' virus types, plus parasitic virophages (!!), the situation is rather less clear than it was...


Not really. All viruses need to infect a cell to reproduce. Even the biggest viruses like the mimiviruses don't carry all the necessary genetic material to reproduce by themselves. That's the crucial thing which distinguishes viruses from bacteria and archaea and single-celled eukaryotes.


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 Post subject: Re: We all Gonna Die!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:12 am 
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WarshipAdmin wrote:
I strongly recommend not getting the flu this year..


I REALLY, REALLY Hope I will succeed in taking your very good advice. ;)

MERRY CHRISTMAS and a Happy, Prosperous, Healthy New Year.

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 Post subject: Criteria...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 am 
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"I say viruses in and of themselves are not living organisms because they cannot reproduce on their own. It is only when the virion encounters the cell and infects it that reproduction can take place."

Spermatoza fail that criteria...
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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