History, Politics And Current Affairs

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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:46 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Winston Smith wrote:
Can I quote this essay in another argument?

Where?

Take word of warning; arguing this matter puts you on a hiding to nothing. The people you'll be arguing with don't care what the facts of the matter are. They've made their mind up and that's that. Whatever you say will just be howled down as part of the conspiracy.


Alternate History Dot Com.

I'm probably doomed, I know, but I'm a Liberal Democrat. We're used to lost causes.

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If Jefferson provided the essential poetry of American political discourse, Hamilton established the prose of American statecraft.


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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:08 am 
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Good luck in arguing that Da Ebil Izraelis might have made a mistake. :D

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Adrian Carton de Wiart, VC wrote:
Frankly I had enjoyed the war...and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?


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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:04 am 
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Winston Smith wrote:
Alternate History Dot Com. I'm probably doomed, I know, but I'm a Liberal Democrat. We're used to lost causes.


You're wasting your time I fear. Trying to talk sense to that lot isn't a lost cause, its completely futile. Their collective IQ is considerably smaller than their individual shoe size.

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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:11 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
You're wasting your time I fear. Trying to talk sense to that lot isn't a lost cause, its completely futile. Their collective IQ is considerably smaller than their individual shoe size.

Depends where - post 1900 is pretty good (I spend a fair bit of time over there, and the morons tend to get slapped down quickly). The chat threads suffer a pretty bad case of groupthink though, not to mention a habit of climbing straight onto the outrage bus whenever one goes past.

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War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:10 pm 
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There's a reason why on AH.com I stick to the timelines (and, oft enough, the ASB section) and on Spacebattles I stick to Creative Writing, and pretend the discussion sections don't exist...

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I'm sorry, but I prefer to carpet-shark my enemies. Much more mayhem, though it must be admitted that the laser-guided shark is cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:49 am 
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There's a been a pretty large infestation of weeaboos and "third rome" orthodox fanbois of late on AH, as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:33 am 
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I just finished reading an article in the June 2017 issue of Naval history Magazine.

No.1 daughter gave me a subscription, after I told her how disappointed I had become with
the quality of the articles in Wild West Magazine, formerly my favorite.
Bet you folks did not know I had been a Jackeroo on a cattle station in Oz during
part of my Misspent youth? Yup I developed a real love/hate affair with stupid flea bags; the horses
not the ringers and other Jackeroos, although some of them made the nags look smart! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But I digress

I would greatly appreciate your opinions, particularly FUs on James M. Scott's article
"The Spy Ship Left out in the cold". Seems as if he draws different conclusions, based on recently declassified memos than Stu had in the original post back in 2008 but it was long time ago I read Stu's article and I could well be wrong. Relying on a 69 year old single malt marinated memory is not always that smart an idea.

While i'm at it Re: Naval history Magazine. I have been pretty well pleased with the quality of the writing and the content of the articles.

HOWEVER I am not happy about the inclusion of cartoon articles in every issue.
We old farts have been having one hell of a argument with the editorial board about those cartoons. They are not budging and say they have them to lure in a younger readership with is the future.
Seems like they are dumbing down a pretty good rag for immature morons we don't need or want.

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 Post subject: Re: The Liberty Incident
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:41 am 
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The article is a bit dramatic, and doesn't make LBJ and his administration look very good, but doesn't seem to contradict what Francis said in his essay - the attack was due to Israel misidentifying the ship as Egyptian. I note that the author claims that a "trained observer" would have identified Liberty without examining whether the Israelis were, in fact, properly trained, or being aware of how often trained and experienced people have attacked friendly ships.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:18 pm 
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OSCSSW wrote:


HOWEVER I am not happy about the inclusion of cartoon articles in every issue.
We old farts have been having one hell of a argument with the editorial board about those cartoons. They are not budging and say they have them to lure in a younger readership with is the future.
Seems like they are dumbing down a pretty good rag for immature morons we don't need or want.


I'm not familier with the magazine, but I'm assuming it's funded by a mixture of subscription and advertising revenue. Assuming that is the case then I can see where the editors are coming from - they need to think about the economics and the longer term:

Option 1: Ditch cartoons, change nothing. OSCSSW and pals happy, HOWEVER as they start dieing off they aren't being replaced by new subscribers. Subscription revenues fall. Additionally with fewer readers the advertising rates fall as well. Overall revenue decline, magazine at risk of failing.

Option 2: Keep cartoons, other minor changes to attract younger audience, although the core product (the great articles) remain unchanged. OSCSSW and pals accuse mag of dumbing down, HOWEVER subscriber numbers remain steady, and there is a possibility that the younger demographic in the audience may enable them to up the advertising rate a bit. Magazine financialy stable and remains in operation.


So it could be that the "dumbing down" is the price you have to pay to keep the magazine going and keep on enjoying the great articles.


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