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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:26 am 
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...The good folks at DMAFB are clearing out a corner, and boy do they have some nice toys -

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Aircraft: F105B - 1 each; F105F -1 each ; T39 - 1 each ; C97 - 1 each; C133 - 1 each; C47 - 1 each; B66 1 each; HU16 - 1 each.


Oh, and almost forgot:

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inert LGM 30A-dimensions: 5 ft. 6" diameter at base, and 60 ft. tall.


More details at http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v ... d=12434806

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:22 am 
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Oh yes...............

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:34 am 
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They're all in awful condition though; already stripped and near-derelict and the terms of sale are that we have to produce a certificate that they had been scrapped and reduced top raw materials. It's a pity because the F-105B is an ex-Thunderbirds aircraft. Apparently they are all ex-AFM aircraft and were on open static display for many years. I can't help wondering why and how the aircraft got to DM; they must have been shipped there. I would have thought it would have been more economic to dispose of them on site.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:51 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
They're all in awful condition though; already stripped and near-derelict and the terms of sale are that we have to produce a certificate that they had been scrapped and reduced top raw materials. It's a pity because the F-105B is an ex-Thunderbirds aircraft. Apparently they are all ex-AFM aircraft and were on open static display for many years. I can't help wondering why and how the aircraft got to DM; they must have been shipped there. I would have thought it would have been more economic to dispose of them on site.


Can one still sit in the cockpits and make "whoosh vvverrrrrm dakkadakka" noises?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:24 am 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
Can one still sit in the cockpits and make "whoosh vvverrrrrm dakkadakka" noises?

Going through the pictures, the C97 and possibly the T39 might, just might, be salvageable for static display. The F-105B appears to have the metalwork for its seat but not the seat itself. All the rest are totaled and not even "whoosh vvverrrrrm dakkadakka" standard.

Its a pity because some of those aircraft are really interesting. The B-66 for example has an F-16 nose and was the radar testbed for the F-16 development program.

It's telling that the highest bid for these aircraft so far is $25.00. I think it's one of those cases where the cost of removing the aircraft and scrapping them exceeds the value of their raw materials.

What amused me was the sight of boxes filled with bits that had fallen off the aircraft and were labeled simply "debris". Reminded me of the old legend (which is almost certainly untrue) of the B-58 that was in deep maintenance when the "withdraw and scrap" order came through. The B-58s were scrapped with almost indelicate haste and in the rush, the aircraft in maintenance was overlooked. it had been dismantled and the bits were left in storage. Someday, somebody, somewhere, is going to buy a hangar full of bits labeled "debris" and find they have a complete B-58 in perfect condition apart from needing reassembly.

As I said, almost certainly untrue. Million to one shot at best.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:41 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
Can one still sit in the cockpits and make "whoosh vvverrrrrm dakkadakka" noises?

Going through the pictures, the C97 and possibly the T39 might, just might, be salvageable for static display. The F-105B appears to have the metalwork for its seat but not the seat itself. All the rest are totaled and not even "whoosh vvverrrrrm dakkadakka" standard.

Its a pity because some of those aircraft are really interesting. The B-66 for example has an F-16 nose and was the radar testbed for the F-16 development program.

It's telling that the highest bid for these aircraft so far is $25.00. I think it's one of those cases where the cost of removing the aircraft and scrapping them exceeds the value of their raw materials.

What amused me was the sight of boxes filled with bits that had fallen off the aircraft and were labeled simply "debris". Reminded me of the old legend (which is almost certainly untrue) of the B-58 that was in deep maintenance when the "withdraw and scrap" order came through. The B-58s were scrapped with almost indelicate haste and in the rush, the aircraft in maintenance was overlooked. it had been dismantled and the bits were left in storage. Someday, somebody, somewhere, is going to buy a hangar full of bits labeled "debris" and find they have a complete B-58 in perfect condition apart from needing reassembly.

As I said, almost certainly untrue. Million to one shot at best.


Well the raw material cost for 150 tons of mixed scrap light iron and ally will be around $10k, if it's sorted and wheels, tyres, wiring and insulation is removed first.

That B-58 is boxed up with the never-built TSR-2 prototype I'm sure of it...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:08 am 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
Well the raw material cost for 150 tons of mixed scrap light iron and ally will be around $10k, if it's sorted and wheels, tyres, wiring and insulation is removed first.

I would gues sthat the cost of going in there, removing it and getting the necessary melt-down permits would be several times that.

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That B-58 is boxed up with the never-built TSR-2 prototype I'm sure of it...

There is also a legend that the third XB-70 prototype was actually built and served in Nevada as a very, very black test and experimental program for couple of decades (and may still be out there), There's just enough "evidence" to support that to prevent us dismissing the idea completely.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
Well the raw material cost for 150 tons of mixed scrap light iron and ally will be around $10k, if it's sorted and wheels, tyres, wiring and insulation is removed first.

I would gues sthat the cost of going in there, removing it and getting the necessary melt-down permits would be several times that.

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That B-58 is boxed up with the never-built TSR-2 prototype I'm sure of it...

There is also a legend that the third XB-70 prototype was actually built and served in Nevada as a very, very black test and experimental program for couple of decades (and may still be out there), There's just enough "evidence" to support that to prevent us dismissing the idea completely.


Don't ask the backstory, but I once had to arrange haulage for a Centurion III. One trailer, single load, no backfill, from Peterborough to somewhere in Kent. Just under £3k about ten years back.

To shift 150 tons of scrap of weird shapes and sizes I'd guess that low-loaders would be needed, estimate at $2k a load just at cost... I'm willing to bet that a Thud would take up a full trailer on its own.

As to the XB-70... doughnuts on a rope, Stuart, doughnuts on a rope..........

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:43 am 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
As to the XB-70... doughnuts on a rope, Stuart, doughnuts on a rope..........


That was something else . . . . :ugeek:

There were sightings of . . . . something . . . . . in the area that had a triangular wing planform. and may have been an airborne launch platform. If we take the diagrams of that triangle thing and superimpose them over a B-70 GA diagram, the wing shapes are very similar. Under the conditions in question, the long, thin nose structure could easily have been overlooked.

One hypothesis was that the . . . . something . . . . was a two-stage air-to-space plane with the AV-3 acting as the mothership and a hypersonic test vehicle doing the rest of the job. The doughnuts on a rope thing was associated with the second component.

There is no reliable evidence for any of this although it is reasonable certain there were things (possibly a lot of things) out there that we know not of. All this stuff is the very definition of speculative and it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that it is all smokescreen for what is really going on.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:48 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
As to the XB-70... doughnuts on a rope, Stuart, doughnuts on a rope..........


That was something else . . . . :ugeek:

There were sightings of . . . . something . . . . . in the area that had a triangular wing planform. and may have been an airborne launch platform. If we take the diagrams of that triangle thing and superimpose them over a B-70 GA diagram, the wing shapes are very similar. Under the conditions in question, the long, thin nose structure could easily have been overlooked.

One hypothesis was that the . . . . something . . . . was a two-stage air-to-space plane with the AV-3 acting as the mothership and a hypersonic test vehicle doing the rest of the job. The doughnuts on a rope thing was associated with the second component.

There is no reliable evidence for any of this although it is reasonable certain there were things (possibly a lot of things) out there that we know not of. All this stuff is the very definition of speculative and it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that it is all smokescreen for what is really going on.


"Everyone knows" that the doughnuts on a rope was AURORA, of course flying to Machrihanish...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:50 am 
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The way I'd do it is set up a shredder onsite. Cut the planes up, remove wiring and steel bits, drop aluminum into shredder. Aluminium to small pieces in one dumpster, 15 tons a load. Copper in another. Mixed waste and dunnage in the last.



Still cost more than the scrap value, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:53 am 
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KDahm wrote:
The way I'd do it is set up a shredder onsite. Cut the planes up, remove wiring and steel bits, drop aluminum into shredder. Aluminium to small pieces in one dumpster, 15 tons a load. Copper in another. Mixed waste and dunnage in the last.



Still cost more than the scrap value, though.


$35k/mth for shredder, $25k/mth for cuber... please to rent.

https://www.rentalyard.com/listings/con ... -equipment

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:29 am 
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I would think the radials in that C-97 would have a market value. Not enough to cover the cost of scrapping obviously, but still worth saving.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:48 am 
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PLB wrote:
I would think the radials in that C-97 would have a market value. Not enough to cover the cost of scrapping obviously, but still worth saving.


Engines removed.......... an R4360 as scrap might fetch $10k (an R2800 in OH condition is $120k).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Engines removed.


I read that, but then they showed photos with them still attached.

Paul


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Reminded me of the old legend (which is almost certainly untrue) of the B-58 that was in deep maintenance when the "withdraw and scrap" order came through. The B-58s were scrapped with almost indelicate haste and in the rush, the aircraft in maintenance was overlooked. it had been dismantled and the bits were left in storage. Someday, somebody, somewhere, is going to buy a hangar full of bits labeled "debris" and find they have a complete B-58 in perfect condition apart from needing reassembly.

As I said, almost certainly untrue. Million to one shot at best.


Well, given the - almost certainly true stories - I've been told of what was discovered in storage here during the Great Dismantling process 1998-2005 I would not at all be surprised.

One of the odder things found was some two million eye patches which turned out to be from the 50's, the idea being that you'd wear it when a nuclear strike was anticipated and then when your unshielded eye was blinded by a detonation you'd rip off the patch and carry on fighting...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
As to the XB-70... doughnuts on a rope, Stuart, doughnuts on a rope..........


That was something else . . . . :ugeek:

There were sightings of . . . . something . . . . . in the area that had a triangular wing planform. and may have been an airborne launch platform. If we take the diagrams of that triangle thing and superimpose them over a B-70 GA diagram, the wing shapes are very similar. Under the conditions in question, the long, thin nose structure could easily have been overlooked.

One hypothesis was that the . . . . something . . . . was a two-stage air-to-space plane with the AV-3 acting as the mothership and a hypersonic test vehicle doing the rest of the job. The doughnuts on a rope thing was associated with the second component.


"Ah yes; 'Blackstar'. We have denied these claims."

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:09 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
Francis Urquhart wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
As to the XB-70... doughnuts on a rope, Stuart, doughnuts on a rope..........


That was something else . . . . :ugeek:

There were sightings of . . . . something . . . . . in the area that had a triangular wing planform. and may have been an airborne launch platform. If we take the diagrams of that triangle thing and superimpose them over a B-70 GA diagram, the wing shapes are very similar. Under the conditions in question, the long, thin nose structure could easily have been overlooked.

One hypothesis was that the . . . . something . . . . was a two-stage air-to-space plane with the AV-3 acting as the mothership and a hypersonic test vehicle doing the rest of the job. The doughnuts on a rope thing was associated with the second component.


"Ah yes; 'Blackstar'. We have denied these claims."


Never believe anything until it's been officially denied... hmm so the XOV was completely obviously not pulse-detonation powered then.

Quick look- AWST called the mothership the SR-3. SR-3... AV-3... coincidence? Je ne pense pas.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:48 pm 
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the X-43 could get quite the helpful boost if it started at mach 3, yes?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Marko Dash wrote:
the X-43 could get quite the helpful boost if it started at mach 3, yes?

So could the X-51 . . . . .. It is said.

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