History, Politics And Current Affairs

Opinions expressed here are personal views of contributors and do not necessarily represent the companies, organizations or governments they work for. Nor do they necessarily represent those of the Board Administration.
It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:44 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:56 pm
Posts: 3234
Location: Kingdom of Gammaraybia
The film Dunkirk premiered today, and I went to the first matinee showing. Rather than following a broadsweeping narrative timeline, it's premise is to use the experiences of the Allied soldiers, the airmen, the sailors, and the civilians who were involved in the evacuation to give the moviegoer a powerful sense of what it was like to go through something like this.

It was a good film in many ways, but it has a major, major failing.

Never once in the film is 'the enemy' identified as the Nazi Germans. Nowhere in the film are the words 'Nazis' and 'Germans' -- either in spoken words or in written words -- used to say who the people are who are attacking the Allied forces making their escape from the Dunkirk beach.

For a film that is as ambitious as this one is in recreating the experiences of the participants, not saying who it is who is on the other side is an unforgivable decision. Worse, it's just plain dumb.

_________________
An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 5054
Location: EGUD
What did they refer to them as? I mean, it isn't like they were trying to conceal who they were given how well known the story is and the markings on aircraft, etc.
Not using Nazis is entirely reasonable - the difference between "Nazi" and "German" only really emerged after the war, and there were any number of slang terms which would have more likely to be used at the time - Huns, Jerries, Boxheads, Boche, etc.

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:56 pm
Posts: 3234
Location: Kingdom of Gammaraybia
pdf27 wrote:
What did they refer to them as? I mean, it isn't like they were trying to conceal who they were given how well known the story is and the markings on aircraft, etc.
Not using Nazis is entirely reasonable - the difference between "Nazi" and "German" only really emerged after the war, and there were any number of slang terms which would have more likely to be used at the time - Huns, Jerries, Boxheads, Boche, etc.

None of those terms is used by anyone in the film. 'The enemy' is all that is used, except for two minor references to 'the Heinkels' and the 'ME-109's. You see the Balkenkreuz cross on the Heinkels and on the ME-109's, but that's the only way you know that the aircraft attacking the beach and the British ships are German -- assuming you already know enough about the topic to know historically who was fighting on the other side.

For someone young who isn't really familiar with World War II, the adversary the British and French are fighting is an enigma, for lack of a better word.

They are invisible inside their airplanes and mostly invisible even when they are in direct contact with French and British troops. Even the lead-in historical text at the very beginning of the film refers only to 'the enemy.' The first thing I thought was, is there someone in charge at the studio who doesn't want to cross swords with Angela Merkel?

_________________
An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:16 am
Posts: 328
I disagree. I liked the way that the enemy is a faceless, formless enigma. They're even more terrifying because you don't see them.

As for the audience not knowing that the enemy at Dunkirk were Nazi Germans, the only people with that level of ignorance are teenage Americans who think that the US Navy captured the first Enigma from U-571, that the Battle of Britain was won by American pilots who were also at Pearl Harbour and that Americans fought in Burma.

To paraphrase one review I recently read; Nolan has made a very British film for a very British audience.

On a side note - I'm not sure if Harry Styles can sing (the last boy band I listened to had Davy Jones in it), but he can act.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 4036
Location: On the shores of Lake Armstrong
Hmm, it seems that trying to track down an original language showing of this will be worth the effort. (I will saw off my own feet with a rusty nail before I watch this in German.)

_________________
“Ancient astronauts didn't build the pyramids. Human beings built the pyramids, because they're clever and they work hard.”

-Gene Roddenberry


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:38 pm
Posts: 2325
Wait for the BluRay, then?

_________________
A Missouri man had once written the Confederate[s] that all they had to do to get rid of the St. Louis Unionists was to destroy the breweries and seize all the beer: 'By this, the Dutch will all die in a week and the Yankees will then run from this state.'


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:16 am
Posts: 328
It's a film that deserves to be watched on a big screen.

They have proper Spitfires flying and proper boats sailing, not CGI! :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 1056
Location: Darkest Eyre
I saw it on the opening day here and liked it a lot. It was a very well made picture that deliberately eschewed characterisation and any backstory or exposition in favour of simply showing the raw experience. It didn't need them and sucked us in as viewers to focus on the sheer humanity of it all. Mark Rylance is remarkable in his role, giving so much through such restraint and Kenneth Branagh and Tom Hardy also fit their characters like fine gloves. The money shot of the arrival of the small boats at Dunkirk was satisfactorily moving.

Dunkirk played around with its three separate narratives so successfully that it took a while to realise they were coalescing together. The conclusion broke out of this to provide emotion and a small snippet of the broader picture in a striking and moving fashion; the combination of Churchill's immortal words and the adaption of Elgar's Nimrod was quite, quite marvelous. I should one day like to see a more-traditional big screen war epic on this great story, but for now, this was a great picture.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 2410
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Ionic wrote:
As for the audience not knowing that the enemy at Dunkirk were Nazi Germans, the only people with that level of ignorance are teenage Americans who think . . . Americans fought in Burma.

Actually, Americans did fight in Burma. As for the rest, anyone expecting accurate history from the movies will normally be quite disappointed. It makes gems like Dunkirk seems to be all the more valued.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:35 am
Posts: 5339
Location: Sweden
Well I'm about to watch it in an IMAX theater, would have preferred 70mm but what can you do.
If it's good enough I might have to try to fit in a 70mm showing at a later date. :P

Well expect a report in a while anyway! :D

_________________
The Night Watch - A Star Trek Story


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:35 am
Posts: 5339
Location: Sweden
Very minor spoilers:

Okay so it was an action packed ride. Kept going virtually non-stop for the whole time.

I think it's definitely worth going to see, though I wouldn't call it an epic movie just yet.

The attempted use of period equipment was nice, albeit easy to tell the destroyer was from a later date. I suspect that the interior of a train carriage was from the 60's as well.

I'm a bit disappointed that Nolan doesn't appear to recognize who I suspect was a lot of inspiration for his movie, namely the famous Titanic second officer Lightoller. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundowner_(yacht)

_________________
The Night Watch - A Star Trek Story


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 4036
Location: On the shores of Lake Armstrong
Jotun wrote:
Wait for the BluRay, then?


Naa. My humble hometown has a Cinemax, and I've confirmed that they do OV showings of the movie. THe when is the issue....

_________________
“Ancient astronauts didn't build the pyramids. Human beings built the pyramids, because they're clever and they work hard.”

-Gene Roddenberry


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:05 pm 
Offline
SAC-trained killer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3883
Location: CL-56, CGN-37
...Just got back from the theater: in the words of the Daily Mirror 77 years ago, "Bloody Marvelous". A couple of minor nitpicks, all of which are more than forgivable.

Mike

_________________
Bójcie się Boga, ale strach nikt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:56 am 
Offline
Official Board Weasel Nut
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 6964
Location: The Island
A USA Today review of “Dunkirk” is under increased scrutiny from industry peers for warning viewers that it lacks women and minorities.

Social media ridicule followed the publishing of writer Brian Truitt’s reaction to director Christopher Nolan’s latest film, a World War II tale about Allied soldiers attempting to survive while pinned down by German adversaries. The columnist gave the film a glowing review while saying its lack of diversity “may rub some the wrong way.”

“The trio of timelines can be jarring as you figure out how they all fit, and the fact that there are only a couple of women and no lead actors of color may rub some the wrong way,” Mr. Truitt wrote Monday. “Still, Nolan’s feat is undeniable: He’s made an immersive war movie that celebrates the good of mankind while also making it clear that no victory is without sacrifice.”

Conservatives like National Review Online Editor Charles C.W. Cooke reacted with sarcasm and mockery.

“It was highly problematic that the British Expeditionary Force and the French army stranded such a monochrome crew,” Mr. Cooke tweeted Tuesday.

“USA Today’s Dunkirk review is officially as absurd as conservative parodies of the social justice crowd,” added The Washington Free Beacon’s Alex Grisworld.

The writer ultimately gave the film 3.5 stars out of 4.

“Hollywood is soon going to run out of genres for Christopher Nolan to redefine,” he wrote. “After tackling superheroes with his ‘Dark Knight’ trilogy and blowing the minds of sci-fi fans with ‘Interstellar,’ the British writer/director puts his audience in the thick of war with the intense and excellently crafted thriller ‘Dunkirk.’”

The film, which stars Fionn Whitehead, Damien Bonnard, and Aneurin Barnard, will be released Friday.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -actors-o/

All hilarious until you see tweets like:

Image

_________________
Image
"It is easy to do nothing. And to do nothing is also an act; an act of indifference or cowardice."
-Admiral H. G. Rickover


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:21 pm
Posts: 2123
Location: Canada, India, Singapore
Am I the only one here that was kind of underwhelmed? Though a large part was the theater I was in had the bass too damn high (ruined the rest of the audio in some parts)....but even accounting for that I only really got into the movie during the parts with tom hardy dishing some badassery to flyin jerry tin cans and bits and pieces here and there. Mark rylance did a great job I must say though.

Good movie, quite excellent cinematography at parts, not really epic for me though....my emotions never were anywhere odd.

_________________
Truth can not be suppressed and always is the ultimate victor.
- Yajur Veda


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 5054
Location: EGUD
Beastro wrote:
A USA Today review of “Dunkirk” is under increased scrutiny from industry peers for warning viewers that it lacks women and minorities.

Social media ridicule followed the publishing of writer Brian Truitt’s reaction to director Christopher Nolan’s latest film, a World War II tale about Allied soldiers attempting to survive while pinned down by German adversaries. The columnist gave the film a glowing review while saying its lack of diversity “may rub some the wrong way.”

“The trio of timelines can be jarring as you figure out how they all fit, and the fact that there are only a couple of women and no lead actors of color may rub some the wrong way,” Mr. Truitt wrote Monday. “Still, Nolan’s feat is undeniable: He’s made an immersive war movie that celebrates the good of mankind while also making it clear that no victory is without sacrifice.”

Conservatives like National Review Online Editor Charles C.W. Cooke reacted with sarcasm and mockery.

“It was highly problematic that the British Expeditionary Force and the French army stranded such a monochrome crew,” Mr. Cooke tweeted Tuesday.

“USA Today’s Dunkirk review is officially as absurd as conservative parodies of the social justice crowd,” added The Washington Free Beacon’s Alex Grisworld.

The writer ultimately gave the film 3.5 stars out of 4.

“Hollywood is soon going to run out of genres for Christopher Nolan to redefine,” he wrote. “After tackling superheroes with his ‘Dark Knight’ trilogy and blowing the minds of sci-fi fans with ‘Interstellar,’ the British writer/director puts his audience in the thick of war with the intense and excellently crafted thriller ‘Dunkirk.’”

The film, which stars Fionn Whitehead, Damien Bonnard, and Aneurin Barnard, will be released Friday.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -actors-o/

All hilarious until you see tweets like:

Given that it clearly did rub some up the wrong way, I'd say he had it right. There are stories out there involving black/coloured troops (most of them depressing admittedly given how many were massacred immediately after capture), and I've thought for a while that the stand put up by the Madagascan soldiers defending a river crossing for several days while the front collapsed around them (can't remember the river right now - I think it's in To Lose A Battle) would make a good film, if enough details of it still survive.

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:49 pm
Posts: 3561
Location: CIVLANT
Ionic wrote:
It's a film that deserves to be watched on a big screen.

They have proper Spitfires flying and proper boats sailing, not CGI! :)


Oh really. saw the film this afternoon. Lousy weather here for sailing and I just had to play hookey from
this deal.

My obsrevations:
1. Kind of a strange film with no defining, logical seuence of events, but war at the personal level is like that so it's OK.

2. Some brain dead PC idiot commented about lack of women and non whites. Saw women nurses in quite a few scenes even aboard ships off the beach. Saw more than a few African looking folks in French uniforms.

3. Good job on the air scenes.

4. Beaches looked remarkably empty for holding a half million Brits and French

5. Vintage wooden yachts and commercial vessels were a delight to see.

6. I didn't know the Brits were used GRP hulled mine sweepers in 1940.

7. The RN DD looked like a French pre DDG MN Surcouf?

8. Not a bad way of spending a stinking, cold, downpour 2 hours.

9. That said, zero rewatch value to me.

10. For my money the 1958 version of Dunkirk with John Mills, Richard Attenborough
and Bernard Lee was far superior film.

BUT...That's just me...I'm funny that way! ;)


_________________
"If you think they’re going to give you THEIR country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. ;)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:55 am
Posts: 4673
Location: D88 by night, D20 by day
We went to see the film at the weekend, much like the Senior Chief I remarked that it was interesting that they'd gone to great lengths to procure realistic-looking Army uniforms and aircraft, then just decreed that anything grey and pointy would do for the Navy.... this got a Severe Look from SWMBO.
OSCSSW wrote:
7. The RN DD looked like a French pre DDG MN Surcouf?

It was the Maille-Breze, currently a museum ship in Nantes. Quite a good visit, actually, provided you speak French. The guides are all ex-Marine Nationale, the ship is in good condition, and most of it is opened up.

_________________
If the BBC told me that it was dark outside at two o'clock in the morning on a stormy day in December, I would feel obliged to check their facts.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:07 pm
Posts: 300
Saw the film, interesting way of doing it, less big picture more individual snapshots. Worth seeing, I might see it again when it comes on TV but not one for multiple viewings really.

Anyone remember this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_(TV_series) ? The BBC miniseries had a better overview iirc but not the impact and effects of the movie.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Dunkirk
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:59 pm
Posts: 423
Quote:
Anyone remember this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_(TV_series) ? The BBC miniseries had a better overview iirc but not the impact and effects of the movie.

I do,

A good documentary series, and had Benedict Cumberbatch in it, before he became well-known.

_________________
"Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?" - Reg, Life of Brian.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group