History, Politics And Current Affairs

Opinions expressed here are personal views of contributors and do not necessarily represent the companies, organizations or governments they work for. Nor do they necessarily represent those of the Board Administration.
It is currently Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:55 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 4014
Location: UK
While re-tuning the kitchen & living room TVs' 'freeview' channels, I came across RT News.

It seems to be US based, like its neighbour CNN, but RT's attitude is 'seriously snarky'. My limited watching suggested they set their teeth into people, parties, politicians, pundits etc of all shades. No quarter given...

Then I did the obvious thing and Googled for them.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

They're a pseudo-independent Russian propaganda channel !!

Maskirovka Lives !!

_________________
'P for Pleistocene' A camp-out goes impossibly wrong...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:58 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:35 am
Posts: 4940
Location: Sweden
Ah yeah they've been around for a while. They're pretty efficient in a sense since they're sleek enough that the average viewer don't ask too many questions and get suckered in.

_________________
"Messieurs, je suis Vermlandais, Vermlandais véritable!".


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 4961
Location: EGUD
They've actually been putting up advertising posters on the tube making a thing out of them being run from the Kremlin (I think the tagline was something like "see things from a different perspective").

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:17 pm
Posts: 458
RT's affiliations are not exactly carefully concealed. That said from the Russians I know they seem to represent popular or at least "speakable" opinion in that country in roughly the same way the BBC does for the UK.

_________________
To stand an' be still to the Birken'ead drill is a damn tough bullet to chew


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 4014
Location: UK
Well, the venerable 'Morning Star' news-paper is still going, and still bought by folk of a certain alt-disposition.

This, despite confirmation that the paper had been secretly sponsored by the Kremlin since the 1950s...

_________________
'P for Pleistocene' A camp-out goes impossibly wrong...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:55 am
Posts: 4629
Location: D88 by night, D20 by day
You can also get Al Jazeera on Freeview in the UK. They and Russia Today are often seen on social media posts by the intellectually challenged.

I suppose if they realised that Al Jazeera and Russia Today were biased, they'd also have to face up to the fact that if the Russian and Qatari state-run broadcasters aren't impartial, the British one probably isn't either....

_________________
If the BBC told me that it was dark outside at two o'clock in the morning on a stormy day in December, I would feel obliged to check their facts.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 3266
Location: Germany
Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
Then I did the obvious thing and Googled for them.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

They're a pseudo-independent Russian propaganda channel !!

Maskirovka Lives !!


What's wrong with a another source of propaganda especially if it gives you a different party line? ;)

_________________
trekchu wrote:
It was worse than he had expected. It was so incomprehensibly bad that he'd rather watch Pearl Harbor on a constant, never-ending loop than...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
M.Becker wrote:
What's wrong with a another source of propaganda especially if it gives you a different party line? ;)


I agree. I watch Russian news and a few other nations regularly and they get to be very interesting. One thing about RT; I don't believe it really is propaganda because, by and large, it reflects the way the Russians themselves really see things.

By the way, on Youtube there is a channel called StarmediaEN that contains Russian TV series with English subtitles. They vary in quality with CGI being quite painful sometimes (they actually have the old superanimation thing of seeing the wires the models are suspended from) but the best are quite well done and they certainly show a different light on things. There's one series called "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" which was splendidly done and is a classic show deserving of a much wider audience. "The Attackers" is set in a WW2 Yak-9 fighter regiment and isn't quite so good but still an interesting insight into how things work back then. "The Night Swallows" is about the Night Witches. There's one about a Mi-24 unit in Afghanistan but I haven't started watching that yet.

The cast is a bit stereotyped, there's always the avid but naïve party member. the reasonable authority figure commander, the grizzled old Sergeant who knows how to keep things running, the dedicated expert who won't go back to the rear etc. And, interestingly the NKVD political officer who is an unsympathetic, thoroughly evil bastard who abuses his authority and throws his weight around right up to the time when he finally dies redeeming himself in the last episode.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 4014
Location: UK
Remember 'Soldatsender Calais' ? The UK-run pseudo-German radio station that kept stuff strictly true until the opportunity came to slip in a toxic barb...

_________________
'P for Pleistocene' A camp-out goes impossibly wrong...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:04 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Harlington Straker Studios
RLBH wrote:
You can also get Al Jazeera on Freeview in the UK.


I personally would put the standard of some of the Al Jazeera English language reporting as quite good. When they started they were pretty much all ex ITN bods who escaped before ITN downsized. Having seen some translated pieces of there Arabic channel they seem to report like two completely separate entities on the same topic concurrently.

Some of there short 30min documentaries concentrating on Africa and especially the Chinese soft power expansion in the region have seemed quite interesting in a way CNN or the BBC (Worldwide is far better than BBC News as an aside) just don't seem to cover.

Either way they to me at least down seem as obviously biased as RT, which when watched with this in mind can be unintentionally hilarious.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
Remember 'Soldatsender Calais' ? The UK-run pseudo-German radio station that kept stuff strictly true until the opportunity came to slip in a toxic barb...

That's what I had in mind although I haven't spotted the toxic barns yet. I genuinely get the feel RT and the other people I mentioned are genuinely trying to tell people "this is how Russians see things". If that's so, then its a useful service. In "The Dawns here are quiet" there's a short scene where the importance of the Murmansk railway and the Lend-lease supplies it carries is a major plot point. It's in the original Russian as well as the subtitles so its internal as well as external.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:50 am 
Offline
Mockingbird

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:29 am
Posts: 3826
Location: BB-16, BB-62
Francis Urquhart wrote:
The cast is a bit stereotyped, there's always the avid but naïve party member. the reasonable authority figure commander, the grizzled old Sergeant who knows how to keep things running, the dedicated expert who won't go back to the rear etc. And, interestingly the NKVD political officer who is an unsympathetic, thoroughly evil bastard who abuses his authority and throws his weight around right up to the time when he finally dies redeeming himself in the last episode.


So its like all the US movies about WWII at least from the casting? Clueless junior officer, tough but caring sergeant, a half dozen guys who "do what they have to do so they can go home" and the protagonist?

Belushi TD


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
Belushi TD wrote:
So its like all the US movies about WWII at least from the casting? Clueless junior officer, tough but caring sergeant, a half dozen guys who "do what they have to do so they can go home" and the protagonist?

To some extent although there's a distinctly Russian twist on it and its sometimes quite surprising. The junior officers aren't clueless, or if they are they get killed very quickly (the death toll amongst the protagonists is much higher than any Western equivalent; literally, anybody can get killed often suddenly and without warning). "Caring" isn't part of the vocabulary although the words "get it done" are. And everybody knows they certainly won't be going home in the foreseeable future and probably not at all. What did surprise me is the very unsympathetic depictions of the political officers and the NKVD and the fact that the Communists are shown as rather naïve and dumb. The people who survive are the practical realists. The Germans are always shown as unspeakable monsters of course, there's none of the "oh, they're just soldiers like us" meme. It's "they are monsters who need killing before they kill us" Curiously they're also depicted as being more capable than their Russian opposite numbers and have to be brought down by bravery and determination.

The depiction of the US is surprisingly sympathetic and almost warm. There's a scene for example where one of the women soldiers (another difference) goes home to see her baby and her mother asks what "their allies" (ie Americans) are doing for them. She looks down at the table where there are cans of Spam and baby food with the American flag on them. It may not sound much but after decades in which the importance of American aid was completely ignored it is a significant change. The importance of the Murmansk railway in bringing American supplies to the rest of Russia and the criticality of those supplies is a massive plot point (and main show driver) in the Dawns are Quiet here.

These shows are intended for the Russian internal audience, not external viewers so if watching them its necessary to mentally change gear. The pacing of episodes is extremely different from western shows and it takes getting used to. I do thoroughly recommend "The Dawns are Quiet Here", its a very good story, very well done. It deserves showing on broadcast TV here.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:37 pm
Posts: 7220
Location: BM-9, BB-30
Apparently the series is based on a Boris Vasilev novel, and there was a movie made in 1972 based on it.

_________________
RLBH wrote:
I'm sorry, but I prefer to carpet-shark my enemies. Much more mayhem, though it must be admitted that the laser-guided shark is cheaper.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
The Bushranger wrote:
Apparently the series is based on a Boris Vasilev novel, and there was a movie made in 1972 based on it.

And there is furious debate in Russia over whether the film or the TV series is better. I think we can only see the TV series here but it is worth finding and watching. The way the whole mood of the series shifts as the series unfolds is superbly done.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 4961
Location: EGUD
Francis Urquhart wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:
Apparently the series is based on a Boris Vasilev novel, and there was a movie made in 1972 based on it.

And there is furious debate in Russia over whether the film or the TV series is better. I think we can only see the TV series here but it is worth finding and watching. The way the whole mood of the series shifts as the series unfolds is superbly done.

While I think about it, have you seen "White Tiger"? More of a ghost story than historical film, but I rather liked it which is pretty unusual for me.

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
pdf27 wrote:
While I think about it, have you seen "White Tiger"? More of a ghost story than historical film, but I rather liked it which is pretty unusual for me.

Not yet; I'll try and find it. Thank you for the recommendation.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 4961
Location: EGUD
Francis Urquhart wrote:
pdf27 wrote:
While I think about it, have you seen "White Tiger"? More of a ghost story than historical film, but I rather liked it which is pretty unusual for me.

Not yet; I'll try and find it. Thank you for the recommendation.

There's a subtitled version on YouTube.

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10180
I finally found and watched "White Tiger". It was very well done and I liked the way there were tanks other than the T-34 in the background. I spotted Matildas and a Grant in the Russian scenes - and in the early part, the T-34s were T-34/76s. I thought the last twenty minutes were contorted and superfluous - I think the propaganda people took over there although the basic message is very accurate. I would say a good investment of two hours.

It shares a lot with the one of the underpinnings of the TBOvese; that machinery will talk to you on some level if people will only listen.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 10:18 am
Posts: 6700
Location: Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
Francis Urquhart wrote:
I finally found and watched "White Tiger". It was very well done and I liked the way there were tanks other than the T-34 in the background. I spotted Matildas and a Grant in the Russian scenes - and in the early part, the T-34s were T-34/76s. I thought the last twenty minutes were contorted and superfluous - I think the propaganda people took over there although the basic message is very accurate. I would say a good investment of two hours.

It shares a lot with the one of the underpinnings of the TBOvese; that machinery will talk to you on some level if people will only listen.


I forget which novel it was, but there's a line from Martin Caidin that's stuck in my mind: "An airplane will always tell you when it's dying."

_________________
"The double tap is a myth. Shoot the threat until it goes away. Only then will his soul find peace." -- Dalai Lama


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drunknsubmrnr, Ionic and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group