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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:21 am 
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Gordie, had to be the absolute worst choice for going along with Ed :D I mean, come on. we don't need comedy , especially in the middle of "church" where the opponent's mantra is essentially "DEATH TO ALL NOT KRILL!" But he hung in there.
"THAT was a brand new leg!!" :D All giggles aside, that alone was far brutal than anything we ever saw on trek. And giving a level 10,000 Sunburn to the Krill?? Likewise. I can see Kirk doing it, but Jean-Luck Pickard would have tossed his cookies... :P


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:00 am 
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KenH wrote:
Gordie, had to be the absolute worst choice for going along with Ed :D I mean, come on. we don't need comedy , especially in the middle of "church" where the opponent's mantra is essentially "DEATH TO ALL NOT KRILL!" But he hung in there.

It was notable that Ed was getting seriously annoyed with his wisecracks and general blundering. And showing that kid where Earth is . . . incredibly stupid. Golden rule of Intel, never tell anybody anything unless it benefits you to do so.

People getting roasted for blundering was something else that was in the early TOS but faded there and was absent from its successors.

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"THAT was a brand new leg!!" :D All giggles aside, that alone was far brutal than anything we ever saw on trek. And giving a level 10,000 Sunburn to the Krill?? Likewise. I can see Kirk doing it, but Jean-Luck Pickard would have tossed his cookies... :P


Indeed so. Yet, looking back, once we saw that scene, it was apparent that something like that was inevitable right from the start. Indeed it was telegraphed when the "weather report" on Krill was mentioned. This was actually a very well-constructed episode.

I think Orville is a remarkably courageous show in that it doesn't pull punches when showing consequences of actions. That is a refreshing change.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:22 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Micael wrote:
Okay up tp date with Orville: Latest episode was a bit average, not too bad but nothing too special either


It had several very good sections in it; one of them was the running joke about just how blunderingly incompetent the "infiltration" team was. They knew nothing about how to do work like that - which is exactly what one would expect from the crew of a medium-level, nothing-special utility ship. These people were not intelligence agents and the actors played their parts exactly that way. In doing so, they highlighted just how dumb the Krill crew would have had to be fall for the operation. A good dissection of several 'infiltrator' plots in Star Trek.

What made the episode was the last few minutes though. A Star Trek episode would have ended with the two infiltrators using passages from "the book" to negotiate some sort of truce and everybody sitting down to sing Kumbaya. Instead, the story ends with a massacre (which, once it happens we realize was inevitable from the moment the idea of infiltrating two completely unqualified 'agents' into an enemy warship. This was going to end badly and the inevitable progression to that bad end was a true Greek Tragedy). Even rescuing the Krill kids went wrong because after the 'infiltrators' killed the entire crew they will indeed grow up hating humans. Once again, this episode had an air of reality in its inter-personal relations that Star Trek in its later incarnations totally lacked.

And, there was a nice Chekhov's Gun tucked into the plot. One of those kids now had a fairly good idea of where the human home planet is.

The ending was the best bit of the episode, the rest felt a bit like it was moving along too slowly, you could have axed 15-20 minutes worth and still have had pretty much the same episode. If they'd inserted some sort of subplot to fill out the time instead it'd have been better.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:13 pm 
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I liked it, although I would agree that it was a bit too long, or that some of that time could be spent fleshing out the Krill characters. For future episodes, if there are any, I'd prefer the Krill to be a bit more formidable, as it stands now their battle-cruisers have been repeatedly defeated by the equivalent of escort destroyer. They could shake things up by having the bad guys actually outsmart and outfight the good guys.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:46 pm 
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I liked it too. Again the serious parts worked well. The last act was inspired (at least as far as network TV is concerned). And, we got to see a "heavy cruiser", which made the 3000 ship fleet a bit more real. All in all, eating Discovery's Star Trek lunch, as far as that goes (note the difference in Orville's and Discovery's handling of a colony rescue, and who does it better).

As noted above, it would have been better for Discovery to have been a completely different (ie non-Trek) universe. You could change every inference to canon Star Trek (and it isn't much), change the ship designs (again, wouldn't have to do that much), and you could have your go-girl sci-fi show with no baggage. You would have not lost a single viewer due to "Star Trek" syndrome, and gained many of the sceptical Trekkers. Whether they would have stayed or not is another matter, although a lot of the animosity against Discovery is due to the fact that it is just not "real" Trek.

Even Kirk in the JJ-verse is saying WTF in relation to Discovery. (He likes the lens flare though).

Edit: Are the krill supposed to be analogous to muslims? Or just cookie cutter religious extremists? What say the board?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
Edit: Are the krill supposed to be analogous to muslims? Or just cookie cutter religious extremists? What say the board?

I Hollywood, all religious extremists are Christian. It's partly ideological and partly because Christianity is the mainstream faith in the US and they write what they know. Of course, that the extremists tend to resemble other faiths more is a measure of how little Hollywood knows about anything.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:18 pm 
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If I had to guess, I'd say the Krill more broadly represent religion in general, while I would agree with Dave that Christians are the focus. I'm not sure the show will have time to explore that completely but I think all religions are going to be subjected to a lot of criticism. And in fairness religious faith is a perfectly valid subject for satire and debate. I'd like to hope that they become a bit more nuanced in later episodes. Incidentally, the krill seem tailor made to explore the negative effects of identity politics.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
Are the krill supposed to be analogous to muslims? Or just cookie cutter religious extremists? What say the board?

I think that they are more akin to any totalitarian group. One could argue that they were closer to Nazis or communists in that they regarded the rest of the world as both enemies and prey, base their society on a single book that is beyond question or debate and allow no variance from the norm for that society. Now, I would agree that also applies to some religious faiths but within those faiths, the specified characteristics only apply to a limited part of the spectrum. With totalitarian regimes, they do form the overwhelming majority.

I am very interested to see how the Krill will be developed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Nathan45 wrote:
If I had to guess, I'd say the Krill more broadly represent religion in general, while I would agree with Dave that Christians are the focus. I'm not sure the show will have time to explore that completely but I think all religions are going to be subjected to a lot of criticism. And in fairness religious faith is a perfectly valid subject for satire and debate. I'd like to hope that they become a bit more nuanced in later episodes. Incidentally, the krill seem tailor made to explore the negative effects of identity politics.


Any Star trek series, like The Orville, needs its Klingons or Cardassians. The religious aspect is, so far, broad brush enough that the Christian criticism is not obvious enough to be offensive, and I don't think at this point at least MacFarlane is trying to give offence. For instance, in Episode 3, they could have made Boris' spouse who disagreed with him on handling their transgendered child into a very unsympathetic character. They didn't. Now MMacFarlane could still wander off into full SJW mode, but so far, it's no worse than TOS.


Last edited by DaveAAA on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:34 pm 
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I've thought many things of Seth MacFarlane, but I'll never accuse him of being a SJW.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:32 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
That's the thing; in TOS, there was a moral undercurrent - but it was done right. Either over the top to the point of silliness (Let That Be Your Last Battlefield) while still making its point, or simply presented as How Things Are In The Future (Kirk and Uhura kissing). I remember an interview with Nichelle Nichols, where she said that at one point while reading a script, she teased Roddenberry about "oh, you're writing morality plays!" and his reaction was to grin and basically go 'shh, don't tell anyone!'. Whereas later, he was, for whatever reason, using a sledgehammer instead.


Because he didn't have to hide it anymore, nor did he have a monster to fight with to get his way.

I realize now that is what censorship is all about. It forces writers to do that little bit extra to get by them that also shows more effort made in the end produce.

I think we can see that it how much comedy has declined into little more than vulgar acts and swearing that aren't even shocking anymore. No effort is needed to sneak them by so none is made even if it would make things better.

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The big problem was that Roddenberry's utopian Federation and some of the plot contrivances to maintain dramatic tension were silly.


I think the plot contrivances were there because Roddenberry mandated in TNG that Mankind had evolved past bickering and anger. It was practically a commandant that all the cast would get along and be nice, so the only alternative was to have families and involve kids to butt heads with.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
I liked it too. Again the serious parts worked well. The last act was inspired (at least as far as network TV is concerned). And, we got to see a "heavy cruiser", which made the 3000 ship fleet a bit more real. All in all, eating Discovery's Star Trek lunch, as far as that goes (note the difference in Orville's and Discovery's handling of a colony rescue, and who does it better).

As noted above, it would have been better for Discovery to have been a completely different (ie non-Trek) universe. You could change every inference to canon Star Trek (and it isn't much), change the ship designs (again, wouldn't have to do that much), and you could have your go-girl sci-fi show with no baggage. You would have not lost a single viewer due to "Star Trek" syndrome, and gained many of the sceptical Trekkers. Whether they would have stayed or not is another matter, although a lot of the animosity against Discovery is due to the fact that it is just not "real" Trek.

Even Kirk in the JJ-verse is saying WTF in relation to Discovery. (He likes the lens flare though).

Edit: Are the krill supposed to be analogous to muslims? Or just cookie cutter religious extremists? What say the board?


The inverse is also true. You could do the same to The Orville and hey presto! It’s become a brand- new Trek series, only a damn good one.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Ratings wise, it looks like the Orville is settling in at a 1.0 rating in the 18-49 demographic, and its actually picking up viewers from its lead in Gotham. I gather a 1.0 rating is basically a coin flip on renewal, with the support of Seth helping it. Having said that, if its a lot more expensive to produce that could hurt it.


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 Post subject: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:04 pm 
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First off some good news. Ratings for this episode have gone up a bit, and critically its actually adding viewers over its Gotham lead in. Chances for a season 2 are pretty good at this point.

This was a solid episode and very timely. Its basically a examination of social media gone insane, where your like/dislike ratio can get you thrown in jail, or worse. It also has comments on media hysteria and how to change public opinion by tweaking the narrative, which is where most of the humor of the episode comes in.

Of course here your like/dislike ratio is not legally binding. Unless proposition 304 passes, and we all pray it will.

PS They need some solid training for undercover situations.

Anyone else like it?

My favorite line.

"I won't fail you"


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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:27 pm 
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I thought it was a very sound episode that got its points over rather well. I also caught an air of "this is why we are a republic, not a democracy" about it. I think Brannon Braga was "counseled" after episode three.

The bit with the girl brought on board the Orville was well done.

Odd thing; the episode on Thursday was one scheduled for two weeks ago but was replaced by a rerun of the pilot episode. I wonder why

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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:41 pm 
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I thought the schedule change was due to the baseball playoffs.

So far I'm like the Orville better than Star Trek: Enterprise.

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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Not sure , why the change
But, Orville was always scheduled to fit in the Thursday 2100 slot


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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Yes, baseball was the reason from what they're saying.

The Orville keeps getting better and better, they've toned down the outlandish comedy somewhat, and it was refreshing to see MacFarlane take a back seat in this episode (especially as he wrote it).

I'm beginning to think that Episodes 1 and 2 were maskirovka. They were pretty much what "everyone" thought the show would be, "Family Guy in Space." It's well known MacFarlane is a genuine Star Trek fan (there's even some talk he approached CBS before the current abomination was set in motion and they blew him off), so I think he always wanted to make an "updated" Next Generation. And knowing how lawsuit happy CBS (and Paramount) are in regards to Star Trek IP, he basically made the pilot episodes parody/comedy (nothing to see here guys), before moving to a more refined concept.

Episode 3 (due to Braga) was complete lurch to Star Trek SJW BS (with comedic elements), but they seem to have found a good mix now. The trailer for the next episode looks interesting; very short promo, no sign of comedy until right at the end, and the "bad guys of the week" have ridged foreheads. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Stu, any chance you can cull The Orville posts from the STD thread and combine them here, perhaps with a new thread title where we can continue to discuss? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
Stu, any chance you can cull The Orville posts from the STD thread and combine them here, perhaps with a new thread title where we can continue to discuss? Thanks.

Took a bit of fiddling but done.

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 Post subject: Re: Orville Episode 7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Jimbeamer5 wrote:
Stu, any chance you can cull The Orville posts from the STD thread and combine them here, perhaps with a new thread title where we can continue to discuss? Thanks.

Took a bit of fiddling but done.


Thanks for that. 8-)

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