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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
The scene in the first episode where the Captaina nd first officer are having an end-of-marriage blame row while the evil baddie gets steadily more frustrated is priceless.

There's a hilarious scene along those lines in Mass Effect: Andromeda, too, where the Evil Pirate Captain on the comms keeps getting cut off by the arguing captain and crewman. Wonder if they had that inspiration. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:47 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Herein shortest crossover story around. Enterprise from STNG meets Showgirl.

Picard: "Stand down your weapons or I will open fire on a count of five. One . . . two . . . . three . . . four. . . all right, lets negotia .. . "

Showgirl swerves away from the spreading cloud of radioactive debris that used to be the Enterprise

Lieutenant Soo: "Who was that idiot?"



I seem to recall oh so many moons ago on the Bad Astronomy board you hinted at writing a story where the TNG Federation goes up against the equivalent era Strategic Aerospace Command. I had hope when I saw Intersellar Highway being written, that would be it, but sadly my hope was dashed and the aliens turned out to be good guys. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:03 am 
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Micael wrote:
Orville is continuing to be good. I do hope it gets a second season, perhaps the a-list appearances will help to bolster the numbers.

I noticed that four of the five episodes that have aired have been directed by Trek alumni. Robert Duncan Mcneill, Brannon Braga, James L. Conway and Jonathan Frakes.
Interesting that Brannon Braga is also an executive producer, there were a lot of harsh words said of him by fans back in the day. Perhaps a bit unjustified.

And then again, perhaps not. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were responsible for a lot of very bad decisions during their time at the helm of Voyager and Enterprise. And I mean a LOT of VERY bad decisions. And more annoyingly, they didn't just ruin the shows they ran - they ruined them in a way (shockingly lazy, extravagantly formulaic writing) that also retroactively ruined most of TNG for me (because after Voyager, I was no longer able to overlook how often TNG had relied on the same formulae).

Braga did write some decent episodes for TNG; that's how he got the big office. But he also wrote a few that didn't stand up to even cursory examination. And as a show-runner, or co-show-runner with Berman, he was really pretty bad. Perhaps the best thing I can say about Braga is that his and Berman's handling of Voyager was so miserable that it prompted Ron Moore to leave that show and create nBSG as "the anti-Trek." So we did end up getting ~two years of decent TV sci-fi out of it, albeit indirectly.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Philistine wrote:
I don't see why the anger should be surprising: they took a popular, even beloved, franchise, and over the course of a decade they slowly, grindingly, ground it into the dirt.


I've just seen Orville 3 and 5 (4 isn't available yet for some reason). Three I found very disappointing, effectively a return to the bad old days of STV et al. Then I saw who directed it. Five was a relief, back to the quality of the first two.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Philistine wrote:
I don't see why the anger should be surprising: they took a popular, even beloved, franchise, and over the course of a decade they slowly, grindingly, ground it into the dirt.


I've just seen Orville 3 and 5 (4 isn't available yet for some reason). Three I found very disappointing, effectively a return to the bad old days of STV et al. Then I saw who directed it. Five was a relief, back to the quality of the first two.

Without spoiling too much, episode 4 felt a bit like it was inspired by Stargate SG-1. I liked it anyway.
Episode 5 was directed by Frakes, he's a bit shaky as a director in my opinion but here he seems to have worked out.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Philistine wrote:
I don't see why the anger should be surprising: they took a popular, even beloved, franchise, and over the course of a decade they slowly, grindingly, ground it into the dirt.


I've just seen Orville 3 and 5 (4 isn't available yet for some reason). Three I found very disappointing, effectively a return to the bad old days of STV et al. Then I saw who directed it. Five was a relief, back to the quality of the first two.


Agreed, 3 was awful. You will enjoy 4 much more.

I'm not sure parody is the right word. The show gets awful serious at times. Some effective (you'll know it when you see it in 4, for example), and some not (like most of 3).

The start of 5 was great, what DO you do when you spend weeks between systems? And the geeks have worked out the Orville's "speed' at being around Warp 9.997 (based on Ed's comment), faster than most ships in "canon" Trek. Not bad for what appears to be a science ship.

Really like (most) of the show, it's numbers have dropped considerably in pure terms, hopefully that's just the date change. And Sir Patrick is rumoured to make an appearance; judging by the relationship of MacFarlane and Stewart, almost a certainty.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 am 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
The start of 5 was great, what DO you do when you spend weeks between systems?


I agree, its exactly why I like the show. It actually treats the people involved as people, not as interchangeable cardboard cut-outs. Orville is a very 'human' show in that respect; its focused on characters as people and the science/technology background reinforces, not diminishes, that. Even the dismal episode Three had that attribute (could it be that Brannon Braga is FINALLY learning his trade?)

I must admit, that watching Episode 5 I had an epiphany. Orville is what STNG should have been and never managed to be. Even if Orville doesn't get renewed (sadly it doesn't look good right now) Fox should get credit for showing us shat could have been.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:19 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
I must admit, that watching Episode 5 I had an epiphany. Orville is what STNG should have been and never managed to be. Even if Orville doesn't get renewed (sadly it doesn't look good right now) Fox should get credit for showing us shat could have been.

It's Fox (may a curse be upon them)... do you actually expect them to take anything good and extend it? Maybe if we're lucky we'll at least get an Orville movie in a few years.

Watched 3 last night; it wasn't as good as 1 and 2 but the kid was cute. Not the ending I expected though.

I'll note that I've only ever really seen the original ST series. I remember TNG being on when I was younger and my dad watching some of it but I was too young to understand or care.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 am 
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gtg947h wrote:
It's Fox (may a curse be upon them)... do you actually expect them to take anything good and extend it? Maybe if we're lucky we'll at least get an Orville movie in a few years.

They're improving. Lucifer is just starting its third season and its improving steadily. Perhaps they are learning from their mistakes . . .

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:16 am 
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The most recent look at The Orville over at TV By the Numbers is optimistic; in particular, they opine that Seth MacFarlane's involvement means the show will receive the benefit of any doubts. And while Orville's ratings aren't good, they're at least not losing viewers from Gotham in the previous hour.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Jimbeamer5 wrote:
You will enjoy 4 much more. I'm not sure parody is the right word. The show gets awful serious at times. Some effective (you'll know it when you see it in 4, for example), and some not (like most of 3).


Well, I caught up with Orville 4 so I am up-to-date. That one was obviously derived from the old Heinlein story Orphans of the sky. It does indeed get grimly serious but it was also extremely well done. In fact, I'd say this is the best episode so far although 5 was very close to it. Once again, the key factor is that people are shown as people, not interchangeable ciphers. Watch Seth MacFarlane's performance when he faces the man who beat the crap out of Kelly. The sheer fury waiting to burst through is almost tangible.

Micael wrote:
As a side not I started watching Lucifer since I got reminded of its existence by Stuart above. I like it so far.


It's one of those shows that took a season to get into its stride but it really picked up momentum. Have you met Maze yet? The actress is on maternity leave for the start of Season Three (although there are four held-over episodes from Season Two that they're using to slot her into the run).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:50 pm 
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When they made the point in the scene leading up to that, and made a thing about "set for Stun" , and then when they busted in , in a fashion Jim Kirk would be proud of, and saw - I seriously thought Captain Ed was gonna burn that pustule DOWN. Hell the way he stunned him left NO doubt he was very VERY pissed. Seriously good work by all there


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Well, I caught up with Orville 4 so I am up-to-date. That one was obviously derived from the old Heinlein story Orphans of the sky.

Indirectly through ST: The Original Series "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky". The title is an obvious shout out to Asimov's "Nightfall".


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
I must admit, that watching Episode 5 I had an epiphany. Orville is what STNG should have been and never managed to be. Even if Orville doesn't get renewed (sadly it doesn't look good right now) Fox should get credit for showing us shat could have been.


Apparently IndyWire described it as "Creatively, Morally, and Ethically Bankrupt". Which is probably a high reccomendation...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:05 am 
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...We started watching The Orville a week or so back, and frankly, we're hooked. Yes, Ep 3 was rather heavy-handed - but honestly, no worse than any number of TOS eps one could name. The humor does tend to the raunchy, but as the Prime Minister points out, it's human. Best way to describe it - twisted Trek done by people who love and respect the source material.

Mike

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:38 am 
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It's one of those shows that took a season to get into its stride but it really picked up momentum. Have you met Maze yet? The actress is on maternity leave for the start of Season Three (although there are four held-over episodes from Season Two that they're using to slot her into the run).

Yeah she's an interesting one.
I'm going to try to push through a few more episodes shortly so I get into it.
Amusing that the devil has a British accent by te way.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:14 pm 
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MikeKozlowski wrote:
Best way to describe it - twisted Trek done by people who love and respect the source material.

"The next best thing to a full Galaxy Quest series"? :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:21 am 
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MikeKozlowski wrote:
Best way to describe it - twisted Trek done by people who love and respect the source material.

Mike

And perhaps even more important, the The Orville people seem to have some idea of why the source material worked. Any long-lived franchise has to worry about that, even (or especially) when the reins get passed to a new group of creators who grew up as fans.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:49 am 
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Okay up tp date with Orville: Latest episode was a bit average, not too bad but nothing too special either:

Discovery: To tie in a bit with what Craig said above I'm getting more and more convinced that this is at its heart a story/universe that someone originally intended as an original creation and which then got a Star Trek veneer coating when the opportunity presented itself. I would have liked it more as a standalone I think.
Oh and a TOS character appeared in episode five:
Harry Mudd

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:00 am 
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Micael wrote:
Okay up tp date with Orville: Latest episode was a bit average, not too bad but nothing too special either


It had several very good sections in it; one of them was the running joke about just how blunderingly incompetent the "infiltration" team was. They knew nothing about how to do work like that - which is exactly what one would expect from the crew of a medium-level, nothing-special utility ship. These people were not intelligence agents and the actors played their parts exactly that way. In doing so, they highlighted just how dumb the Krill crew would have had to be fall for the operation. A good dissection of several 'infiltrator' plots in Star Trek.

What made the episode was the last few minutes though. A Star Trek episode would have ended with the two infiltrators using passages from "the book" to negotiate some sort of truce and everybody sitting down to sing Kumbaya. Instead, the story ends with a massacre (which, once it happens we realize was inevitable from the moment the idea of infiltrating two completely unqualified 'agents' into an enemy warship. This was going to end badly and the inevitable progression to that bad end was a true Greek Tragedy). Even rescuing the Krill kids went wrong because after the 'infiltrators' killed the entire crew they will indeed grow up hating humans. Once again, this episode had an air of reality in its inter-personal relations that Star Trek in its later incarnations totally lacked.

And, there was a nice Chekhov's Gun tucked into the plot. One of those kids now had a fairly good idea of where the human home planet is.

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