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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:52 pm 
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I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet, and at this point I expect I'll wait until it pops up on Netflix. But then I wasn't impressed by The Force Awakens, so my disinclination to buy a ticket is properly another instance (albeit individually insignificant) of a previous bad film in a franchise depressing the box office of the next installment, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the successor. Although...

In this case, I have reason to believe it's not just me: TLJ opened a little lower than TFA did, which suggests that at least one or two other people weren't entirely enthusiastic about the prospect of getting more of what TFA delivered. But what's worse, the second weekend box office for TLJ is down a whopping 68.9% from last week (That's pretty gruesome: worse than the Total Recall remake, or Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li!), which suggests that TLJ's word-of-mouth is generally unfavorable. Eleven days into TLJ's run it's about $180 million behind TFA's pace, and slowing a lot faster; I've even seen forecasts that the film's ultimate take may actually come in lower than Rogue One.

Nathan45 wrote:
...a over-reliance on emotional moments that the movie did not earn. There are numerous scenes where the movie expects us to feel a emotional connection, but I just didn't care...

And that was my single biggest gripe about TFA, though IIRC I phrased it as, "JJ Abrams does not appear to understand that you can't just HAVE big, climactic emotional moments without previously building up to them, establishing who the characters are and why the audience should care." Apparently the issues at Lucasfilm go deeper than Abrams, which is a pity; I had entertained a (faint) hope that his departure from SW would improve TLJ in much the same way that his departure from Star Trek improved Star Trek Beyond.

The Bushranger wrote:
Nathan45 wrote:
Ah well, maybe I'm just in a foul mood. It is interesting to note the split between the professional reviews (Over 90% positive at rotten tomatoes) and the average moviegoers (About 52%, which is horrible, even bad movies usually get 50% or more)

Apparently a lot of the "average moviegoers" panning it are "OMG TEH WIMMIN IN MAH STAR WARZ" trolls...

Certainly that seems to be the tack the film's defenders are taking (Perhaps said defenders should ask themselves how that worked out for Sony in re: the Paul Feig Ghostbusters fiasco...), although at a rough estimate 90% of the complaints I've seen about the movie are more to do with the story not making sense in itself, never mind in the context of what's been previously established in the setting.

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Last edited by Philistine on Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Aside from it having no story whatsoever..... the MOAR WIMMEN POWR!!!!! retardation is just retarded dialed up to about 12. Maybe 14. Then the teeny bit of building up a whole ton of stuff for a pair of characters for three frapping years, THEN not resolving anything in a logical or coherent manner, tends to put some people off. The screaming retardation about les fems is simply a COVER for their UTTER FAIL as producers, writers, and directors. That's on THEM. Suck it up. You clowns likely have killed Star Wars. And JJ lensflareboy, having created this disaster to begin with, now saddled with ENDING it, aint gonna help.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:50 am 
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I'll note that most of the people I know have actually enjoyed it...and a lot of the screaming about it has been factually untrue ("MARK HAMILL HATES TLJ" Um, no, he actually said he didn't believe Luke's arc would have gone that way but in context he understood it and was fine with it.)

Philistine wrote:
Certainly that seems to be the tack the film's defenders are taking (Perhaps said defenders should ask themselves how that worked out for Sony in re: the Paul Feig Ghostbusters fiasco...), although at a rough estimate 90% of the complaints I've seen about the movie are more to do with the story not making sense in itself, never mind in the context of what's been previously established in the setting.

Well they caught one guy bot-bombing the ratings, so-

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:17 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
I'll note that most of the people I know have actually enjoyed it...and a lot of the screaming about it has been factually untrue ("MARK HAMILL HATES TLJ" Um, no, he actually said he didn't believe Luke's arc would have gone that way but in context he understood it and was fine with it.)

Even the negative reviews I've seen (most of them, sometimes grudgingly) say the movie is an enjoyable ride while it lasts. But then the critics got out of the theater and found themselves with questions, like, "Wait - was there, in fact, any point to that subplot at all?" Or, "Wait - could the whole plot of the movie have been avoided by adding one line of dialogue for one character?" Or, "Wait - did they really just totally abandon (pick any question raised in TFA and teased endlessly over the two years since) without any kind of resolution?" Or, "Wait - if that was so easy, why doesn't everyone in the setting do it all the freaking time?"

The Bushranger wrote:
Philistine wrote:
Certainly that seems to be the tack the film's defenders are taking (Perhaps said defenders should ask themselves how that worked out for Sony in re: the Paul Feig Ghostbusters fiasco...), although at a rough estimate 90% of the complaints I've seen about the movie are more to do with the story not making sense in itself, never mind in the context of what's been previously established in the setting.

Well they caught one guy bot-bombing the ratings, so-

Did they? The latest thing I'd heard on the topic was Rotten Tomatoes adamantly denying speculation to that effect. Anyway, it's not likely that the box office results are being distorted by spambots, though to be sure we'll have a much clearer picture there next week after the New Year's holiday weekend.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:54 pm 
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My family really liked it. :D it was worth the money guys

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Philistine wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:
I'll note that most of the people I know have actually enjoyed it...and a lot of the screaming about it has been factually untrue ("MARK HAMILL HATES TLJ" Um, no, he actually said he didn't believe Luke's arc would have gone that way but in context he understood it and was fine with it.)

Even the negative reviews I've seen (most of them, sometimes grudgingly) say the movie is an enjoyable ride while it lasts. But then the critics got out of the theater and found themselves with questions, like, "Wait - was there, in fact, any point to that subplot at all?" Or, "Wait - could the whole plot of the movie have been avoided by adding one line of dialogue for one character?" Or, "Wait - did they really just totally abandon (pick any question raised in TFA and teased endlessly over the two years since) without any kind of resolution?" Or, "Wait - if that was so easy, why doesn't everyone in the setting do it all the freaking time?"

That was very much my reaction. Lots of "WTF?" on the drive home. When you have time to think about it, the threads unravel.

Were we there, most of us would have a politer but no less fervent reaction than Ken or Poobah about the very uninspiring CO and her super secret plan to fight inflation that is so super secret she causes mutiny because she can't or won't say "here's the plan."

Was she intended to be in the wrong, then things would have gone much better. I liked the screwup aspects of many of the storylines, because that's real life. We can all relate to Poe doing an end run around an incompetent superior, or living too long and becoming a Petain. Poe the hothead is equally relatable, because that is the benefit of being junior.

So lots of good material and workable storylines, but the execution was sloppy.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:54 am 
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Johnnie Lyle wrote:
Philistine wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:
I'll note that most of the people I know have actually enjoyed it...and a lot of the screaming about it has been factually untrue ("MARK HAMILL HATES TLJ" Um, no, he actually said he didn't believe Luke's arc would have gone that way but in context he understood it and was fine with it.)

Even the negative reviews I've seen (most of them, sometimes grudgingly) say the movie is an enjoyable ride while it lasts. But then the critics got out of the theater and found themselves with questions, like, "Wait - was there, in fact, any point to that subplot at all?" Or, "Wait - could the whole plot of the movie have been avoided by adding one line of dialogue for one character?" Or, "Wait - did they really just totally abandon (pick any question raised in TFA and teased endlessly over the two years since) without any kind of resolution?" Or, "Wait - if that was so easy, why doesn't everyone in the setting do it all the freaking time?"

That was very much my reaction. Lots of "WTF?" on the drive home. When you have time to think about it, the threads unravel.

Were we there, most of us would have a politer but no less fervent reaction than Ken or Poobah about the very uninspiring CO and her super secret plan to fight inflation that is so super secret she causes mutiny because she can't or won't say "here's the plan."

Was she intended to be in the wrong, then things would have gone much better. I liked the screwup aspects of many of the storylines, because that's real life. We can all relate to Poe doing an end run around an incompetent superior, or living too long and becoming a Petain. Poe the hothead is equally relatable, because that is the benefit of being junior.

So lots of good material and workable storylines, but the execution was sloppy.


The whole thing is... I looked at the first one, enjoyed it at first, and felt so many missed opportunities on a grand scale after I thought about it for a while.

With TLJ, they had more missed opportunities on a more micro-scale, but still there.

Part of me is debating whether to start posting a "re do" of TFA that I began and abandoned due to time. Kicked around some thoughts I had.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 am 
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clancyphile wrote:
Black Fleet Crisis does look intriguing as something to keep in part, but large parts of the plot didn't work and were overtaken by the prequel trilogy, IMO, especially the "Luke's mom" bit.

I take it you haven't actually read the books. Let's just say that subplot works even with the prequel trilogy, though it's by far my least favorite of the three. The Leia subplot is the only case when someone managed to nail the flavor of a military in Star Wars (even the X-wing books suffered on this), and the politics are notably more realistic than usual, too. The Lando subplot is also brilliant, and can almost be read as a separate novel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:02 am 
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ByronC wrote:
clancyphile wrote:
Black Fleet Crisis does look intriguing as something to keep in part, but large parts of the plot didn't work and were overtaken by the prequel trilogy, IMO, especially the "Luke's mom" bit.

I take it you haven't actually read the books. Let's just say that subplot works even with the prequel trilogy, though it's by far my least favorite of the three. The Leia subplot is the only case when someone managed to nail the flavor of a military in Star Wars (even the X-wing books suffered on this), and the politics are notably more realistic than usual, too. The Lando subplot is also brilliant, and can almost be read as a separate novel.


I read them - but it's been a long time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:35 am 
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FInally got around to seeing this yesterday with the family.

Couple of things in response to others:

Leia isn't supposed to be the Princess Leia of old. Her husband has just died (very recently, like a week or so, maybe more, maybe less, the time is a bit foggy, and even though they were estranged for a long time, they had just started a reconciliation. So she's very war worn and still mourning. She's SUPPOSED to not be at her best.

Burning the Jedi tree... Yoda burned the jedi tree to keep luke from finding out that Ray stole the jedi texts. All the crap about letting go and such was to prepare Luke to shuffle off the mortal coil. Luke couldn't leave the island and leave the basis of the Jedi religion intact, since he had lost faith. Once the tree was burned, and as far as Luke knew, the books were burned, Luke was free to act to mitigate his failure with Ben Solo and then, having, in his own mind, expiated his failure, was free to move on to become one with the force.

BTW, Hammil plays a GREAT crotchety old bastard. I suspect it comes, at least in part, from his having played the Joker in some of the animated Batman stuff.


I really liked what they did with the vice admiral. Not only was the eye candy spectacular, it turned a complete zero of a character into a hero, even if it was because she went kamikazi.

Fin is a complete screw up. He was a screwup as a stormtrooper, and he's a screwup as a rebel. Its nice to see someone who screws up featured in the film. You don't see that elsewhere in the series. Everyone is either hypercompetent, or competent and defeated by someone who's just better.

Ok... what the HELL was it with the giant cannons being affected by gravity? While the giant batwing B-2 looking ship of Snoke's was shooting at the rebel cruiser, the shots were looking like they were arcing down onto the shields. They were supposed to be in deep space. Line of sight and all that. Almost all of the space shots showed some kind of gravity affect, and it really broke my suspension of disbelief.

Another one... What was with all the crying? There was more crying than I've ever seen in a star wars movie. The middle of the movie was kind of spoiled for me because of all the touchy feely crap. I felt much the same way in the middle of the revised version of Empire Strikes Back that was released in 1998 or so when Luke and Yoda spent a half hour talking to each other.

Belushi TD


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Belushi TD wrote:
Ok... what the HELL was it with the giant cannons being affected by gravity? While the giant batwing B-2 looking ship of Snoke's was shooting at the rebel cruiser, the shots were looking like they were arcing down onto the shields. They were supposed to be in deep space. Line of sight and all that. Almost all of the space shots showed some kind of gravity affect, and it really broke my suspension of disbelief.


Two words: Seismic charges. By this point it's pretty obvious space in the GFFA isn't a vacuum; it's aether.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:25 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
Belushi TD wrote:
Ok... what the HELL was it with the giant cannons being affected by gravity? While the giant batwing B-2 looking ship of Snoke's was shooting at the rebel cruiser, the shots were looking like they were arcing down onto the shields. They were supposed to be in deep space. Line of sight and all that. Almost all of the space shots showed some kind of gravity affect, and it really broke my suspension of disbelief.


Two words: Seismic charges. By this point it's pretty obvious space in the GFFA isn't a vacuum; it's aether.


Correct, the A-Wings are a great example of visual control surfaces intended for space flight! It's even actually termed, on the A-wing, as the "Aethric Rudders". Somewhere there is also a list of maximum speeds in space achievable by various ships which was drawn up for Return of the Jedi. All indicative of some form of coefficient of drag in space.

And not only is it Aether in play here, ships in SW are rarely in any sort of orbit, as they have the ability to hover above the planet on anti-gravity repulsors. In such cases weapons will be affected by the local planets gravity as nothing is in a free-fall condition.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Forget the arcing(they're laser bolts anyway so gravity?), aren't even the star destroyers supposed to have dozens of guns? I was almost face palming when they were picking the transports off one at a time. Unless some moron decided to be dramatic.

I like the crystal foxes though. More than the porgs really.

One of the things we did was indulged in was was called "dbox" seats. They move, which was kind of cool in the space scenes, but they were overused a bit, and wrongly in others.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:43 am 
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I believe that one can use tortured logic to explain away the star destroyers have dozens of guns thing....

The Rebel cruiser was supposed to be just on the edge of the range for the super-duper big fancy arcing in deep space guns of the batwing Snoke ship, which was far larger than the star destroyers. So the gun had more range than the start destroyers. The Rebel cruiser was also Just Fast Enough(c) to stay ahead of the Snoke Ship and the star destroyers, so when the other ships ran for the planet, they were in range of the big fancy guns on the Snoke Ship, but not those of the star destroyers. So the Snoke Ship had to pick them off one at a time.

Here's a question... The "mineral planet" was supposed to be in deep space, right? That means no star? Then whyinhell was there blinding light on that planet?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:30 pm 
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You see that a lot in sci-fi. You have the fancy ftl drive that lets you go between star systems, but there always seems to be something in range of sunlight engines, without even having to worry about relativity screwing with you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Kunkmiester wrote:
I like the crystal foxes though. More than the porgs really.

Those foxes are freaking awesome, and Disney is missing the boat merchandising the porgs and not the foxes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:34 pm 
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I have been led to believe by my brother in law that the reason there are Porgs in the Star Wars universe is because the island they shot those scenes on is infested with puffins, and it was cheaper and easier to digitize Porgs over each puffin than to chase the little buggers away before each call of "Action".

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Belushi TD wrote:
I have been led to believe by my brother in law that the reason there are Porgs in the Star Wars universe is because the island they shot those scenes on is infested with puffins, and it was cheaper and easier to digitize Porgs over each puffin than to chase the little buggers away before each call of "Action".

Belushi TD


Your BIL is right (prepare to pay up, I suspect. :lol: ).

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