History, Politics And Current Affairs

My name's Nate and I've been reading and interested in the TLW universe for some time.

So I was curious as to which military projects were continued and which were cancelled if someone can make a list. (real vs TLW)

I know Jan told me that Midgetman was NOT cancelled.
Yak-41 and Yak-44 were not cancelled.
P-7 was cancelled (in both real and TLW).
AGM-136 TACIT RAINBOW was cancelled
M8 AGS was not cancelled

I have a couple big questions marks, such as
Sea Lance
Crusader
F-20 Tigershark
YF-23

IAI Lavi

Polish PZL-230 Skorpion

Anything else to know would be lovely.

How about the AN-225?

An-71?

-Tigershark was canceled in 1986, before the Point of Departure (PoD).

-YF-23 was beaten in competition by the YF-22, unless it was then put forward for another role, aka.F-111 or F-15E replacement It still would have been cancelled.

-IAI Lavi was cancelled 1987, before PoD.

-Crusader = XM2001 Crusader? No Idea if it would be cancelled, however it is slower then the vehicle it replaces, not a good thing when the maneuver elements it supports now are much faster then the ones it used to support.

-Sea Lance probably in service as ASROC replacement. Jan?

-PZL-230 Skorpion was cancelled due to a lack of funding, whether it continued ITL would probably depend on whether the Russian's/Soviets decided to help fund the project.

-AN-225 was built to move outsized cargo and as a transport for the Soviet version of the space shuttle, I'm guessing that a couple more may have been built for the same purpose, but the numbers produced would still be extremely low.

-AN-71 lost the competition for an AWAC's for the Soviet navy, this was before the PoD, so the Yak 44 would have been constructed instead of the AN-71.

Note this information is all from Wiki and easily found.

And now for a question of my own.

What about FOAS with the BAe Replica?

Sea Lance - I seem to recall Jan saying it eventually entered service, though ASROC and VL-ASROC are still in widespread service. When I sent him a draft of the Missile Fact File, he didn't put a note next to it for being canceled.

M2001 Crusader - In service in limited numbers with the US Army, I believe just a few battalions based in CONUS.

F-20 Tigershark - Canceled pre-POD in 1986, I'm not seeing anything that would cause its revival in TLWverse. The USAF not buying it really killed the program.

F-23 - Still lost the ATF competition to the F-22.

IAI Lavi - Canceled pre-POD in August 1987. I'm not seeing anything that would cause its revival in TLWverse.

PZL-230 Skorpion - Hmm, I'm inclined to say no on this one. I'm not sure the TLWverse USSR would have been very keen on any client states developing and building their own tactical aircraft designs.

AN-225 - In service in limited numbers to support the Soviet space program.

AN-71 - Apparently was canceled before the USSR collapsed in OTL.

OTHER PROGRAMS
AGM-137 - still canceled

Seawolf class SSN - continued beyond the three OTL boats, still in production.

F-14D - Production continued, replaced all earlier models in active duty VFs.

A-12 Avenger II - Still canceled, but later than in OTL.

A-6F - Revived in early 1992 after cancellation of the A-12.

RAH-66 - Not canceled, in service with US Army.

Marder II IFV - In service with West German Army.

VBCI - In TLWverse, the VBCI is a tracked vehicle and I believe it is in service.

A few others are discussed here.

Probably not as a flying aircraft . According to the RAF Factfile, the Tornado GR.4 replacement will either be a development of the Typhoon with a thicker wing and conformal tanks, or a British version of the F-25.

As I understand it, the British took what they learned with Replica and used it as their big contribution to the JSF program in OTL. The probably did the same thing in TLWverse with the JTAT program.

ATLAS Carver

Novi Avion

FMA SAIA 90

Those are a couple more ?'s

ATLAS Carver: Still cancelled, for financial reasons; AFAIK it was a product of the arms embargo, just as the Oliphant tank was. The SAAB Grippen fulfills the requirement.

Novi Avion: The political situation in Yugoslavia in TLW is very much against this project (remember there is a NATO led peacekeeping force in Bosnia). It would have been cancelled for financial and political reasons.

FMA SAIA 90: Looks like it may have been cancelled before the POD. In any case I very much doubt that Argentina could affoard the project in any case, so I'd say no.

Jan whats your weight in on the PZL-230 Skorpion project? Would you say it was cancelled in TLW?

I'd say it would be cancelled. It was probably over ambitious and the Soviets didn't like their satellites to be too independent. IMVHO this project would go the same way as the Polish nuclear bomb project.

THAT would have been used to defend Poland against Russia.

Very true. I remember the magazine article that mentioned the programme said that the Soviets stamped on it because they could not depend on the Poles, when push came to shove, flying their nuke armed Migs east rather than west.
Says a lot for their so called 'pact'. I'm sure that the US never worried about its NATO partners trying to use nuclear weapons against them.

I've always sympathized a little with the Soviet generals. Who would you rather have for allies, ours or theirs. And who would you rather have for neighbors?

It's a wonder they ever slept at night.

To a degree they couldn't even trust some of the non-Russian troops in the Soviet Army.

How about TRIGAT, OTL Trigat-MR is dead and everyone but the Germans has abandoned Trigat-LR.
At least the British seem to have gotten out, using the Javelin for medium range and still using Swingfire (any replacement planned for it?)

Hm. On a somewhat related note...did the Soviets ever see about further development of Polyus?

Was the Soviet radar, I forget the name, but I think it was Top Plate made functional for the Soviet Fleet? It know it was installed aboard the Kuznetsov class carriers.

The big commie naval phased array on Baku and Kuznetsov was code named Sky Watch, and was apparently a complete technological failure. So its most likely that they just give latter ships a whole new design. The first US naval phased arrays completely failed too on Long Beach and Enterprise and were removed. That was in the 1960s, but Soviet technology tended to run 15-20 years behind what the US was doing so it fits.

The Soviets had another naval phased array search set on the SSV-33 Ural which was completely different and came from a complete different designer code named Mad Hack. Its apparently X-band, making it a tracking and fire control set rather then generalized search, but other then this almost nothing is known. Apparently the designers mostly made ABM radars so very little information is released on anything they do. But this radar could be the basis for phased arrays on latter Soviet units.

How about the Sea Apache?