History, Politics And Current Affairs

Is there a North Korean Order of Battle made yet?

Also I'd love to know if the Ryugyong Hotel (Pyongyang) was ever completed. In case you've never heard of it, it the "hotel of doom" in the North Korean Capital. A very disturbing design.

Here are some linky's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=2590901
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/11909
http://www.forbes.com/global/2008/1027/059.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70858.html
http://www.esquire.com/the-side/DESIGN/ ... oom-012808
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTech ... 4020080717

The NorK Orbat is going to be similar to what it is in @. Completion of the Ryugyong Hotel depends on finance available to the North Korean government.

Does that mean we might get to see Beagles in action?

Beagles?

Ilyushin Il-28 "Beagle", a late 40s/early 50s Soviet jet bomber. If Wikipedia holds true (big if at times, I know), it seems North Korea got both Russian-built and Chinese-built aircraft, with the Chinese-built version of Il-28 designated Harbin H-5. They do not look too likely to survive against US and South Korean air defence.

Indeed.

They're still operational in @ - a recent issue of Combat Aircraft (I think that was it, I lose track sometimes with all my reading ) had a feature with satellite shots of a few North Korean airfields, including one with a lineup of Beagles, several of which had fresh scorch marks in the grass behind their parking places.

I've always loved old aircraft, and weird ones - the Il-102 is a particular favourite of mine for some reason...

Il-102 is a strange-looking one, but the Il-40 is even weirder in the looks department.

Ah. But these crates are blood ancient! Then again, I doubt the NKs have all that much access to modern hardware.

*reads about the Il-40*

...Sergey Ilushin has just been declared as having emigrated to East Africa in the timeline that's stuck in my head.

Man, I knew about the Beagle, but the others were frikking awesome. The Il-102 looks like a flying tank!!!!!

It has bomb bays in the wings! I wonder how drunk were the designers when they thought of that.

Regarding the Peoples Air Force and their old aircraft, I remember reading (in either Combat Aircraft or Air Forces Monthly, I don't know which) about the USAF-Korea and what they considered the threat of the An-2 Colt dropping special forces in the air bases given "stealthiness" of the canvas covered wings and wood propellers. If it's true or not I don't know but it might make for some nice writing: "The Colt that got Away"

Protect the Base. Accept follow-on forces. Take the war North.

Well, I thought vodka was Russia's national drink?


It's true - the An-2 problem is one that has never been satisfactorialy solved. It's the old problem, a low, slow aircraft (or helicopter) has a major edge in maneuverability over a jet, and is a bad target for missiles. I recall reading about this guy who was flying his composite-and-prop homebuilt around the world, and over the middle east, a Syrian MiG hadn't got the word and came in to attack him, with epic-fail results for the MiG.

As for the Colts, they've tried everything from F-94s back in the day, to OV-10 Broncos as night fighters (!), and nothing has been good enough to stick.

In @, the South Koreans also use An-2s, actually. (Something I learned from the Attrition pages in AirForces Monthly recently when one crashed...). I'd be interested to learn where they came from...

...presumably, though, in TLW-verse, the ROKAF isn't using them, or the Il-103 either, for that matter.

Well, the An-2 did fail in spectacular fashion against the venerable UH-1 in Vietnam. See here.

The Bronco ideia might work. Give it NVG capability and use its MGs to hose down the Colt.

As for common aircraft in both North and South how about the MD500 helicopters. Seems both NorKAF and ROKAF have a bunch of those and they might be used for over the border missions. I wonder how many soldiers in the South can distinguish between "ours" and "theirs" at a glance.

It took LTJG Guy Bordelon in an F4U-5N to deal with the "Bedcheck Charlies" back in the day. They tried everything: F7F-3Ns, F-94s, F3D-2s, even A-26 Invaders, but it took a Corsair to make sure the NKAF's low and slow night fliers stayed on their side of the line. Most of these intruders were Po-2 biplanes, but some were Yak-9s or Il-10s.

The Il-2 and Il-10 had that too, as did a number of 1930s aircraft built by other nations. It was done to reduce drag and make it easier for the plane to dive bomb. The only limitation was you couldn’t pack in large bombs but this was irrelevant for close air support missions when a large number of smallish bombs were desired.

Hey Jan, I've lurked for a long time on the yahoo place, really like the story.

I was just wondering how much influence Beijing has in Pyongyang as opposed to OTL?

Glad you enjoy it.

Probably less than in @ because in TLW there is a strong Soviet faction in the NorK politburo and it is currently ascendant. The Chinese faction is against the invasion of the South because they do not believe it can suceed in the current circumstances and they are waiting for it to fail so that they can exploit the situation and oust the Soviet faction.

It's certainly the best WW3 fic I've found (though admittedly not very many)

I wonder if they could get Chinese help.

Wonder how hostile the Chinese are to the Soviets (read that comment about The PLA isn't doing anything, which I personally find to be odd. Discussions at another forum (world affairs board) left me with the impression that in the Eighties, if the Soviets had marched west, the Chinese would have marched north (regardless of the drubbing they'd get). Though I don't know how important those fifty or so divisions in the Russian Far East would be to TLW verse European theater (a Russian general commented to the NATO Parallel History project that their projections showed that they needed those forty divisions to win in Europe, but again, that was during the Eighties).

Thanks again.

I'll bet the PRC is going to maintain their "watch and wait" posture for the time being. Though there's probably some intelligence-sharing with the U.S. and ROKs re: North Korea and Soviet Forces in the Far East. When the NK offensive runs out of steam-as it will eventually-the pro-Chinese faction in the NK government will probably use a few "premature heart attacks" to influence events north of the 38th Parallel. And if one of those so afflicted is Kim-Jong Il, so be it...

Is there any reliable unclassified NK Order of Battle? There's one for a wargame called Crisis: Korea 1995, but it's probably guesswork.