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 Post subject: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:04 pm 
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When I heard this story on the news tonight, my first thought was that someone's got some 'splainin to do:

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-north ... in-pine-az

This material was found in October of 2017, and the ATF just posted a $10k reward for information on the case. According to the story, the explosives had been buried in sealed plastic tubes for at least 20 years or so. In total there was 80 blocks (100 lbs) of C-4, nine live claymore mines, six clackers and a roll of det cord.

Obviously, whoever buried the stash intended to come back for it.

One question that occurs to me is how this much bangstuff fall off the truck, so to speak. It should be fairly easy to trace, as the blocks of C-4 and the claymore mines all have lot numbers. It's been a long time since I played with this kind of stuff, so I don't remember of the clackers or the det cord have lot numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:11 pm 
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I can see how this much stuff could easily fall off the truck. Someone in charge of using it in exercises, or a ordnance tech in charge of handing it out and collecting the unused portions. Probably wouldn't take more than a few years on that duty. Just say that more was used than actual, and pocket the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:26 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
I can see how this much stuff could easily fall off the truck. Someone in charge of using it in exercises, or a ordnance tech in charge of handing it out and collecting the unused portions. Probably wouldn't take more than a few years on that duty. Just say that more was used than actual, and pocket the rest.

That does seem to be reasonable. The tale will be told in the lot numbers, methinks

As background information, those claymore mines were live warshots; as I recall, training mines have blue cases to distinguish them from live munitions. Also, C-4 comes back in wooden crates that hold 24 blocks; each block weighs 1.25 lbs.


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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:39 am 
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"We have no information to suggest that anything nefarious was going to occur or that these were being stored for a future act"

Yes, because you just go around burying (this much) military-grade explosive material like a squrrel caching acorns for no other reason than "watch this"...

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:58 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
"We have no information to suggest that anything nefarious was going to occur [b]or that these were being stored for a future act"...

ATF's bureaucratic idiocy in this statement is self-evident. If it were true, why did the agency offer a $10,000 reward for information??


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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:26 am 
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Garrity wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:
"We have no information to suggest that anything nefarious was going to occur [b]or that these were being stored for a future act"...

ATF's bureaucratic idiocy in this statement is self-evident. If it were true, why did the agency offer a $10,000 reward for information??

Read it at face value. They (yet) don't have any information that they were being stored for anything in future - it's just blindingly obvious that they almost certainly were and they'd rather like some information about who and what for.

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Arizona
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:57 am 
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"We have no information ..."

That's the *strict* truth. Now the archive digging begins...

Hmm: Given that time-frame, I must wonder if some-one was taking the more apocalyptic Y2K predictions rather too seriously...

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Arizona
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:02 am 
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Nik_SpeakerToCats wrote:
"We have no information ..."

That's the *strict* truth. Now the archive digging begins...

Hmm: Given that time-frame, I must wonder if some-one was taking the more apocalyptic Y2K predictions rather too seriously...


The lots are pretty large. They will probably tell them that the material was issued to Fort Huachuca or Luke AFB, and logged off as expended.

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:17 am 
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The Bushranger wrote:
"We have no information to suggest that anything nefarious was going to occur or that these were being stored for a future act"

Yes, because you just go around burying (this much) military-grade explosive material like a squrrel caching acorns for no other reason than "watch this"...

The Claymores are hard to explain, but the rest of the stuff could quite plausibly be the result of someone wanting to do some extracurricular demolitions or excavation work, rather than anything malicious. Ranulph Fiennes' private war against the Doctor Doolittle set springs to mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:43 am 
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Or, you know, some 19 year old kid who ended up in demo in the Army though "COOL! LEFTOVERS!" when told to dispose of unused explosives and managed to get them off base.

Then, he needed somewhere to hide them until he could think of a suitably amusing use for them, and either forgot about them after serving a couple tours, or maybe got killed.

Is there any idea how long the stuff has been buried?

Belushi TD


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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:28 am 
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Belushi TD wrote:
Or, you know, some 19 year old kid who ended up in demo in the Army though "COOL! LEFTOVERS!" when told to dispose of unused explosives and managed to get them off base.

Then, he needed somewhere to hide them until he could think of a suitably amusing use for them, and either forgot about them after serving a couple tours, or maybe got killed.

Is there any idea how long the stuff has been buried?

Belushi TD

20 years, according to the story.


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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:36 am 
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I wonder if there was a boom in the depositing of explosives caches 20 years ago?


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 Post subject: Re: Here in Aeizona
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm 
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David Newton wrote:
I wonder if there was a boom in the depositing of explosives caches 20 years ago?

My first thought was a Y2K stash...

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