History, Politics And Current Affairs

Opinions expressed here are personal views of contributors and do not necessarily represent the companies, organizations or governments they work for. Nor do they necessarily represent those of the Board Administration.
It is currently Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:10 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
Note - A medium-heavy bomber is defined as a medium bomber that substituted for heavy bombers and was used in a similar manner to the heavies.

Aircraft Total Value Bomber
U.S.Army/Air Force
LB-5 ………………………………. 28.77
LB-6 ………………………………. 36.65
B-3A ………………………………. 42.18
B-4A ………………………………. 43.87
B-6A ………………………………. 43.85
B-10 ………………………………. 60.99
B-18 ………………………………. 68.09
B-23 ………………………………. 112.95
B-25 ………………………………. 109.34
B-25A ………………………………. 116.43
B-25B ………………………………. 116.74
B-25C ………………………………. 119.42
B-25G ………………………………. 119.44
B-25H ………………………………. 123.34
B-25J ………………………………. 126.13
B-25JS ………………………………. 132.93
B-26 ………………………………. 116.87
B-26A ………………………………. 127.07
B-26B ………………………………. 137.20
B-26C ………………………………. 133.81
B-34A ………………………………. 123.72
B-45 ………………………………. 252.37
B-66B ………………………………. 288.43
F-111A ………………………………. 582.44
F-111D ………………………………. 621.22
F-111E ………………………………. 627.42
F-111F ………………………………. 706.06
……………………………….
U.S. Navy ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
P2V-1 ………………………………. 208.34
P2V-2 ………………………………. 217.49
P2V-3 ………………………………. 237.08
P4M-1 ………………………………. 248.47
AJ-1 ………………………………. 195.38
AJ-2 ………………………………. 219.45
A3D-1 ………………………………. 295.23
A3D-2 ………………………………. 295.96
A-5A ………………………………. 492.70
A-6A ………………………………. 325.67
A-6E ………………………………. 349.00
……………………………….
Britain ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
DH-10 ………………………………. 35.86
Aldershot ………………………………. 31.53
Hyderabad ……………………………. 31.99
Hinaidi ………………………………. 39.97
Sidestrand ……………………………. 37.24
Overstrand ……………………………. 40.97
Wellesley ………………………………. 60.90
Harrow ………………………………. 67.69
Bombay ………………………………. 86.45
Albemarle ………………………. 77.05
Buckingham ………………………. 113.41
Mosquito B.IV ………………………………. 118.92
Mosquito B.XVI ………………………………. 140.21
Mosquito B.35 ………………………………. 142.57
Canberra B.2 ………………………………. 228.43
Canberra B.6 ………………………………. 253.52
Canberra B(I).8 ………………………………. 271.05
Tornado GR.1 ………………………………. 586.40
Tornado GR.4 ………………………………. 612.76
……………………………….
Germany ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
AEG G-II............................. 18.16
AEG G-III ............................ 22.58
Gotha G-I............................ 23.70
Gotha G-II.......................... 29.27
Dornier N ………………………………. 33.17
Ju-24 ………………………………. 39.59
Ju-52G-7 ………………………………. 48.68
Ju-52G-7e………………………………. 51.09
Do-17E-1 ………………………………. 54.83
Do-17M-1………………………………. 60.43
Do-17Z-2 ………………………………. 61.50
Do-215B ………………………………. 82.33
Ju-86D-1 ………………………………. 59.13
Ju-86E-1 ………………………………. 60.83
Ju-86R-1 ………………………………. 75.96
He-111B-2 ………………………………. 64.26
He-111E-3 ………………………………. 73.67
He-111P-4 ………………………………. 80.08
He-111H-3 ………………………………. 78.46
He-111H-6 ………………………………. 79.83
He-111H-10 ………………………………. 84.79
He-111H-16 ………………………………. 87.44
Ju-88A-1 ………………………………. 79.25
Ju-88A-4 ………………………………. 95.40
Ju-88S-1 ………………………………. 102.94
Ju-188A-2 ………………………………. 105.19
Ju-188E-3 ………………………………. 106.72
Ju-388K ………………………………. 123.09
Ar-234B-2 ………………………………. 109.14
Ar-234C-3 ………………………………. 139.36
……………………………….
Russia ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
DB-3 ………………………………. 103.44
Il-4 ………………………………. 107.93
Yer-2 ………………………………. 106.19
Yer-2bis ………………………………. 139.42
Tu-2 ………………………………. 108.77
Tu-2bis ………………………………. 110.71
Il-28 ………………………………. 176.53
Tu-14 ………………………………. 174.62
Su-24 ………………………………. 423.37
Su-24M ………………………………. 440.87
Su-24M-2 ………………………………. 473.37
Su-34 ………………………………. 615.66
……………………………….
Japan Army ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
Ki-1 ………………………………. 45.80
Ki-2 ………………………………. 41.81
Ki-21-I ………………………………. 81.25
Ki-21-II ………………………………. 89.63
Ki-49-II ………………………………. 102.62
Ki-67-I ………………………………. 127.89
……………………………….
Japan Navy ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
G3M1 ………………………………. 95.05
G3M2 ………………………………. 100.88
G3M3 ………………………………. 130.76
G4M1 ………………………………. 130.77
G4M2 ………………………………. 131.86
G4M3 ………………………………. 124.76
……………………………….
France ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
Amiot 143 ………………………………. 62.10
Potez 540 ………………………………. 57.32
Amiot 354 ………………………………. 94.50
Leo-451 ………………………………. 93.28
Vautour IIB ………………………………. 238.14
……………………………….
Italy ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
SM-79-I ………………………………. 81.58
SM-79-III ………………………………. 90.41
SM-81 ………………………………. 71.22
BR-20 ………………………………. 85.10
Z-1007 ………………………………. 89.94
SM-82 ………………………………. 92.55
SM-84 ………………………………. 88.19
……………………………….
Sweden ……………………………….
Aircraft ………………………………. Total Value Bomber
SAAB-18 ………………………………. 108.15

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Last edited by Francis Urquhart on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:48 am
Posts: 7250
Location: BB-61 (the ship, not the state)
I'm amazed how potent the F-111 is. Point wise, it beats the B-1B, and comes close to the Tu-160. Also, why does the FB-111 rank so low compared to the rest of the family?

_________________
Intelligence can be identified by its rejection of self-deception; by its willingness to admit that it might be wrong; by its insistence upon evidence rather than mere impression; by reasoning that cannot easily be assailed. - Orson Scott Card


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
ByronC wrote:
Also, why does the FB-111 rank so low compared to the rest of the family?


F-111A ………………………………. 582.44
F-111D ………………………………. 621.22
F-111E ………………………………. 627.42
F-111F ………………………………. 706.06
FB-111A …………………....……… 592.66

It's not that low compared with its sibling generation F-111A/D/E. It's the F-111F that was a long way ahead and that was virtually a second generation Aardvark.

The FB_111 was loaded down with fuel and weaponry; basically, the gain in points it got from its added range and weapons load didn't compensate for the performance penalty. Also, its electronics were a generation older than the F-111F.

The Aardvark was a formidable beast all right. We lost a lot of capability when it was retired.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 10:18 am
Posts: 6956
Location: Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
Any thoughts on how the proposed FB-111H would've scored?

_________________
"The double tap is a myth. Shoot the threat until it goes away. Only then will his soul find peace." -- Dalai Lama


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
Poohbah wrote:
Any thoughts on how the proposed FB-111H would've scored?


Not really I'm afraid; since it never flew, we don't really have any reliable data on it. I suspect that it would have come out in the low 700s, having the same edge over the FB-111A as the F-111F had over the F-111A. That's a subjective guess though.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 5748
I'm surprised by how low the A-6 scored - is that function of low speed, or of compromises to be able to launch it from a carrier.

Also, shouldn't the A10 be listed? It's payload is somewhere in the low range, but other comparables are.

_________________
(English doesn't) just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.--James D. Nicoll


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 244
KDahm wrote:
I'm surprised by how low the A-6 scored - is that function of low speed, or of compromises to be able to launch it from a carrier.

Also, shouldn't the A10 be listed? It's payload is somewhere in the low range, but other comparables are.


I suspect this is a function of how the A10 was used. It was never intended to be a "Heavy bomber". It was exclusively used as a tac-air aircraft and as such wouldn't fit in this list. (ie medium bombers that could serve as heavys in a pinch.)


Last edited by Calder on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
The A-6 is clobbered badly by its low speed. The A-10 is probably a medium-light bomber (that is, a medium bomber that gets used like a light bomber). The medium-heavy is a poor man's strategic bomber; the medium light is a rich man's light bomber.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:48 am
Posts: 7250
Location: BB-61 (the ship, not the state)
The one possible omission I see from this list is the F-15E. You're probably counting that as a pure medium bomber, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

_________________
Intelligence can be identified by its rejection of self-deception; by its willingness to admit that it might be wrong; by its insistence upon evidence rather than mere impression; by reasoning that cannot easily be assailed. - Orson Scott Card


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 5748
ByronC wrote:
The one possible omission I see from this list is the F-15E. You're probably counting that as a pure medium bomber, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

Another Medium-Light

Medium-Heavy, like the A10, only if your country isn't in the G8 or G10 or G15, whatever it is this week.

_________________
(English doesn't) just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.--James D. Nicoll


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:54 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: Kerosycronous Orbit
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
US.Army/USAF x
LB-5 28.77
LB-6 36.65
B-3A 42.18
B-4A 43.87
B-6A 43.85
B-10 60.99
B-18 68.09
B-23 112.95
B-25 109.34
B-25A 116.43
B-25B 116.74
B-25C 119.42
B-25G 119.44
B-25H 123.34
B-25J 126.13
B-25JS 132.93
B-26 116.87
B-26A 127.07
B-26B 137.20
B-26C 133.81
B-34A 123.72
B-45 252.37
B-66B 288.43
F-111A 582.44
F-111D 621.22
F-111E 627.42
F-111F 706.06
U.S. Navy x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
P2V-1 208.34
P2V-2 217.49
P2V-3 237.08
P4M-1 248.47
AJ-1 195.38
AJ-2 219.45
A3D-1 295.23
A3D-2 295.96
A-5A 492.70
A-6A 325.67
A-6E 349.00
Britain x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
DH-10 35.86
Aldershot 31.53
Hyderabad 31.99
Hinaidi 39.97
Sidestrand 37.24
Overstrand 40.97
Wellesley 60.90
Harrow 67.69
Bombay 86.45
Albemarle 77.05
Buckingham 113.41
Mosquito B.IV 118.92
Mosquito B.XVI 140.21
Mosquito B.35 142.57
Canberra B.2 228.43
Canberra B.6 253.52
Canberra B(I).8 271.05
Tornado GR.1 586.40
Tornado GR.4 612.76
Germany x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
AEG G-II 18.16
AEG G-III 22.58
Gotha G-I 23.70
Gotha G-II 29.27
Dornier N 33.17
Ju-24 39.59
Ju-52G-7 48.68
Ju-52G-7e 51.09
Do-17E-1 54.83
Do-17M-1 60.43
Do-17Z-2 61.50
Do-215B 82.33
Ju-86D-1 59.13
Ju-86E-1 60.83
Ju-86R-1 75.96
He-111B-2 64.26
He-111E-3 73.67
He-111P-4 80.08
He-111H-3 78.46
He-111H-6 79.83
He-111H-10 84.79
He-111H-16 87.44
Ju-88A-1 79.25
Ju-88A-4 95.40
Ju-88S-1 102.94
Ju-188A-2 105.19
Ju-188E-3 106.72
Ju-388K 123.09
Ar-234B-2 109.14
Ar-234C-3 139.36
Russia x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
DB-3 103.44
Il-4 107.93
Yer-2 106.19
Yer-2bis 139.42
Tu-2 108.77
Tu-2bis 110.71
Il-28 176.53
Tu-14 174.62
Su-24 423.37
Su-24M 440.87
Su-24M-2 473.37
Su-34 615.66
Japan Army x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
Ki-1 45.80
Ki-2 41.81
Ki-21-I 81.25
Ki-21-II 89.63
Ki-49-II 102.62
Ki-67-I 127.89
Japan Navy x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
G3M1 95.05
G3M2 100.88
G3M3 130.76
G4M1 130.77
G4M2 131.86
G4M3 124.76
France x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
Amiot 143 62.10
Potez 540 57.32
Amiot 354 94.50
Leo-451 93.28
Vautour IIB 238.14
Italy x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
SM-79-I 81.58
SM-79-III 90.41
SM-81 71.22
BR-20 85.10
Z-1007 89.94
SM-82 92.55
SM-84 88.19
Sweden x
Aircraft Total Value Bomber
SAAB-18 108.15

_________________
Everyone who uses a computer frequently has had, from time to time, a mad desire to attack the precocious abacus with a axe. -John Drury Clark Ignition!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:45 am
Posts: 5152
Location: EGUD
If you're including the Tornado, shouldn't the Buccaneer be on there too? And is there enough TSR-2 data out there to compare to the F-111A that it was cancelled in favour of?

_________________
War is less costly than servitude. In the end, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau. - Jean Dutourd


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
The TSR2 is listed in strategic bombers - value is 585.39. Buccaneer will be coming up in the Medium-Light category when I get around to doing them.

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:39 pm
Posts: 488
Francis Urquhart wrote:
ByronC wrote:
Also, why does the FB-111 rank so low compared to the rest of the family?


F-111A ………………………………. 582.44
F-111D ………………………………. 621.22
F-111E ………………………………. 627.42
F-111F ………………………………. 706.06
FB-111A …………………....……… 592.66

It's not that low compared with its sibling generation F-111A/D/E. It's the F-111F that was a long way ahead and that was virtually a second generation Aardvark.

The FB_111 was loaded down with fuel and weaponry; basically, the gain in points it got from its added range and weapons load didn't compensate for the performance penalty. Also, its electronics were a generation older than the F-111F.

The Aardvark was a formidable beast all right. We lost a lot of capability when it was retired.


What about the F-111C? I suppose it's closer to the early model Varks pre it's update program and closer to the F after?

_________________
My MBA really helped with my tactical awareness...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 13584
Location: At the computer, or tablet.
The Tornado comes out pretty well, I'm glad to see.

_________________
Adrian Carton de Wiart, VC wrote:
Frankly I had enjoyed the war...and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:41 am
Posts: 6361
Location: Cambs, UK
Hi Stuart,

I haven't seen the B-57 anywhere in the Library. JUst curious as to how it compares vs the Canberra- from memory same design with uprated engines and some minor differences.

_________________
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Bernard, Ministers should never know more than they need to. Then they can't tell anyone. Like secret agents, they could be captured, tortured.
Bernard Woolley: You mean by terrorists?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: By the BBC, Bernard.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 431
I also couldn't see the A-10 being on this list, as it's really outside the scope of what this list covers, regardless of its A-designation.

F-117 I could see though, even with its very light payload.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Medium-Heavy Bombers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 10917
B-57 is a light-medium in U.S. usage and so it will appear in the next list when I get around to it. The F-117 and A-10 will be done in the attack section

_________________
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group