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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:20 am 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
And the USN only has Old Ironsides.

I'd be getting an order for iron plate in quickly, lads... Maybe a Swede can help you out :D



Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:32 am 
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My curiosity arounded, I looked up some pictures of her. To my astonishment, some of them showed her under way. I do hope they've restored her original engines, not replaced them with diesels. Now, if only the guns are still operational . . . .

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:33 am 
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OSCSSW wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
And the USN only has Old Ironsides.

I'd be getting an order for iron plate in quickly, lads... Maybe a Swede can help you out :D



Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)

Senior, he knows. It was a joke about the name.
And we only have 8 battleships at last count, although I'd definitely include them in the 'ironclad warship' column. Frankly, I'd take Iowa against all of those on the previous list. Just so long as I get to help fight her.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:50 am 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
My curiosity arounded, I looked up some pictures of her. To my astonishment, some of them showed her under way. I do hope they've restored her original engines, not replaced them with diesels. Now, if only the guns are still operational . . . .

From the pics that come up in Google images, it appears that she has a tow line attached in all the photos taken away from the dock.

According to Wiki, her armor and machinery was removed in 1921 before she was converted to an Elevator ship. I would be surprised if she had working machinery on board after the restoration. Probably just reproductions for display.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:38 am 
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bekosh wrote:
Francis Urquhart wrote:
My curiosity arounded, I looked up some pictures of her. To my astonishment, some of them showed her under way. I do hope they've restored her original engines, not replaced them with diesels. Now, if only the guns are still operational . . . .

From the pics that come up in Google images, it appears that she has a tow line attached in all the photos taken away from the dock.

According to Wiki, her armor and machinery was removed in 1921 before she was converted to an Elevator ship. I would be surprised if she had working machinery on board after the restoration. Probably just reproductions for display.


That was my impression also "Bekosh" although Anna talked about a possible future Danube river cruise but I assumed she'd be under tow. The engine room looked pretty authentic mid 1800s steam for the period, not a diesel or combustion engine, but there was no real sign or smell of actual use and the coal bunkers were spotless. .

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:43 am 
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ByronC wrote:
OSCSSW wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
And the USN only has Old Ironsides.

I'd be getting an order for iron plate in quickly, lads... Maybe a Swede can help you out :D



Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)

Senior, he knows. It was a joke about the name.
And we only have 8 battleships at last count, although I'd definitely include them in the 'ironclad warship' column. Frankly, I'd take Iowa against all of those on the previous list. Just so long as I get to help fight her.


Count again ByronC :lol: :lol:

USS Alabama, Mobile, Alabama
USS Arizona, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Iowa, 250 S Harbor Blvd, Los Angeles, CA.
USS Massachusetts, Fall River, Massachusetts
USS Missouri, Honolulu, Hawaii
USS North Carolina, Wilmington, North Carolina
USS New Jersey, Camden, New Jersey
USS Texas, LaPorte, Texas
USS Utah, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Wisconsin, Norfolk, Virginia

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:48 am 
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OSCSSW wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
And the USN only has Old Ironsides.

I'd be getting an order for iron plate in quickly, lads... Maybe a Swede can help you out :D



Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)


As Byron said, I know... that's why I said get some plate ordered, that way she can be converted to an ironclad! :D

Dad's been on board her... I've never had the chance to get to Boston yet, and thinking about it it's been 13 years since I was last over the pond. I need to change that.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
OSCSSW wrote:
Craiglxviii wrote:
And the USN only has Old Ironsides.

I'd be getting an order for iron plate in quickly, lads... Maybe a Swede can help you out :D



Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)


As Byron said, I know... that's why I said get some plate ordered, that way she can be converted to an ironclad! :D

Dad's been on board her... I've never had the chance to get to Boston yet, and thinking about it it's been 13 years since I was last over the pond. I need to change that.


It's worth the trip. The USS Constitution is impressive. So are the USS Massachusetts and other ships at Battleship Cove in Fall River, just down the coast.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:29 pm 
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OSCSSW wrote:
ByronC wrote:
OSCSSW wrote:

Hate to bust your bubble Craige USS Constitution is not an armored ship.
We do have Ten Battleships which, IMNSHO, Count as Ironclads! Anyone want to take them on ?
8-)

Senior, he knows. It was a joke about the name.
And we only have 8 battleships at last count, although I'd definitely include them in the 'ironclad warship' column. Frankly, I'd take Iowa against all of those on the previous list. Just so long as I get to help fight her.


Count again ByronC :lol: :lol:

USS Alabama, Mobile, Alabama
USS Arizona, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Iowa, 250 S Harbor Blvd, Los Angeles, CA.
USS Massachusetts, Fall River, Massachusetts
USS Missouri, Honolulu, Hawaii
USS North Carolina, Wilmington, North Carolina
USS New Jersey, Camden, New Jersey
USS Texas, LaPorte, Texas
USS Utah, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Wisconsin, Norfolk, Virginia

Seriously? While I appreciate the ingenuity, the original specification was 'afloat'. While that technically excludes Alabama (and possibly Texas), it clearly excludes Arizona and Utah (which was a gunnery training ship when she was sunk, anyway). If we're allowed to claim wrecks, then the British should get credit for Royal Oak, and I'll let them and the Germans fight over whatever High Seas Fleet wrecks haven't been salvaged.
Yes, with enough time and money they'd be available, but I think we could get South Dakota and Indiana back for the same price. (Yes, I know that the masts are about all that's left. Given how little of Arizona and Utah could be saved, and the cost of saving it, the cost is probably about the same.)

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Why not try to raise the hull of the Oklahoma, while you're at it? Might be more cost effective than the other alternatives.

Belushi TD


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Can we have Repulse and Prince of Wales too then? They're not too far down.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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ByronC wrote:
OSCSSW wrote:
Count again ByronC :lol: :lol:

USS Alabama, Mobile, Alabama
USS Arizona, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Iowa, 250 S Harbor Blvd, Los Angeles, CA.
USS Massachusetts, Fall River, Massachusetts
USS Missouri, Honolulu, Hawaii
USS North Carolina, Wilmington, North Carolina
USS New Jersey, Camden, New Jersey
USS Texas, LaPorte, Texas
USS Utah, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;)
USS Wisconsin, Norfolk, Virginia

Seriously? While I appreciate the ingenuity, the original specification was 'afloat'. While that technically excludes Alabama (and possibly Texas), it clearly excludes Arizona and Utah (which was a gunnery training ship when she was sunk, anyway). If we're allowed to claim wrecks, then the British should get credit for Royal Oak, and I'll let them and the Germans fight over whatever High Seas Fleet wrecks haven't been salvaged.
Yes, with enough time and money they'd be available, but I think we could get South Dakota and Indiana back for the same price. (Yes, I know that the masts are about all that's left. Given how little of Arizona and Utah could be saved, and the cost of saving it, the cost is probably about the same.)

USS Alabama, Mobile, Alabama Not too bad. Only about a billion to 1.5 billion to get running again
USS Arizona, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;) Bell hoist and drop. About 5 billion, assuming infrastructure for building the rest of the battleline is present
USS Iowa, 250 S Harbor Blvd, Los Angeles, CA. Only about 500 million to get running, another 500 million to get running well
USS Massachusetts, Fall River, Massachusetts Who cares about another 1 to 2 billion
USS Missouri, Honolulu, Hawaii Billion here, billion there, pretty soon you're talking about some real money.
USS North Carolina, Wilmington, North Carolina Two billion, because the hull plating is in bad condition
USS New Jersey, Camden, New Jersey Half a billion, half a billion, half a billion more
USS Texas, LaPorte, Texas For 5 billion, you'd get a rough copy with gas turbines and modern electrical and plumbing systems. For 7.5 billion, you'd get the ship herself.
USS Utah, Honolulu, Hawaii Might need a very long shipyard availability before she can join the battle line. ;) 'Nother bell lift job. From the pictures I've seen, it would be easier and cheaper to raise and restore HMS Hood
USS Wisconsin, Norfolk, Virginia At this point, another billion is chump change

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:32 pm 
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$24bn assuming UTAH is 5bn. Enough economies of scale there to get HOOD thrown in and round it all up to 30? That way just disband NASA and steal their budget... easy!

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
$24bn assuming UTAH is 5bn. Enough economies of scale there to get HOOD thrown in and round it all up to 30? That way just disband NASA and steal their budget... easy!

With infrastructure to do this in a reasonable amount of time and a small contingency, call it $40 billion. That's two years of NASA budget, or about 24 days of payment on the national debt.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:53 pm 
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How did this go from "monitors" to "ironclads" to "every ship with armor and guns"? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Do you have sources on the numbers for the Iowas? I looked recently, and couldn't find any estimates that I considered to be reputable. The ones I did find tended to be rather low, as they were mostly from the 'we must have naval gunfire' community.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Micael wrote:
How did this go from "monitors" to "ironclads" to "every ship with armor and guns"? :lol:

So was the Firefly Sherman a better solution than the 76mm M1 gunned Sherman to the problem of having a good anti-tank gun, or were both just dead ends? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Micael wrote:
How did this go from "monitors" to "ironclads" to "every ship with armor and guns"? :lol:


BBs can do monitor duty. WARSPITE did for Overlord.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:09 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
Micael wrote:
How did this go from "monitors" to "ironclads" to "every ship with armor and guns"? :lol:

So was the Firefly Sherman a better solution than the 76mm M1 gunned Sherman to the problem of having a good anti-tank gun, or were both just dead ends? :lol:


Oh wow. You had to go there didn't you...

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
Micael wrote:
How did this go from "monitors" to "ironclads" to "every ship with armor and guns"? :lol:


BBs can do monitor duty. WARSPITE did for Overlord.

With that definition me in a row boat with a Carl Gustaf is a monitor as well. ;)

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