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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:49 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/18 ... orces.html

Man, Fitters just can NOT catch a break with the USN, can they? ;) Go Navy....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:59 pm 
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...and Iran launched a few ballistic missiles into Syria as retaliation for the recent terrorist attack.

Not a slow news day in that part of the world.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:27 pm 
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First kill for a Super Hornet, first kill for the Navy since 1991 I think?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Micael wrote:
...and Iran launched a few ballistic missiles into Syria as retaliation for the recent terrorist attack.

Not a slow news day in that part of the world.



This one now has me concerned. Those beasts got fired right over the heads of US and Allied troops - there's only two possible explanations and neither one is good. Either they knew exactly what they were doing and were sending a message, or they were pi$$ed and didn't care what they were doing.

Maybe it's time to send a quiet but firm backchannel message: the next time we see missile contacts headed for/over US controlled or allied territory, we are bringing them down.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Theodore wrote:
First kill for a Super Hornet, first kill for the Navy since 1991 I think?


I believe so. I think the last attempt was an F-14 in '99 that attempted to kill a MiG-23 with an AIM-54, but missed.

USN Hornets at:

2x Iraq MiG-21s in 1991
1 x Syrian SU-22 current

for the lost of 1 F/A-18 to a MiG-25 in 1991.

Catching up to the USN F-14 Tomcat kill ratio of:

2 x Libyan SU-22s, 1981
1 x USAF RF-4C, 1987
2 x Libyan MiG-23s, 1989
1 x Iraq Mi-8, 1991

With IIAF/IRIAF Tomcats also having numerous air-air victories.


Last edited by MikeD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:59 pm 
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MikeKozlowski wrote:

This one now has me concerned. Those beasts got fired right over the heads of US and Allied troops - there's only two possible explanations and neither one is good. Either they knew exactly what they were doing and were sending a message, or they were pi$$ed and didn't care what they were doing.

Maybe it's time to send a quiet but firm backchannel message: the next time we see missile contacts headed for/over US controlled or allied territory, we are bringing them down.

Mike


The thing is, Iran has every right to retaliate against ISIS for an attack ISIS has committed upon them, just as we have the same right of retaliation.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:58 pm 
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It's such a mess there. I just wish we'd focus on getting it all back under Assad and then go from there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:11 am 
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MikeD wrote:
The thing is, Iran has every right to retaliate against ISIS for an attack ISIS has committed upon them, just as we have the same right of retaliation.

And I'm sure the Iranians would be very understanding if the next salvo of Tomahawks fired against ISIS overflies their country....

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:26 am 
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RLBH wrote:
MikeD wrote:
And I'm sure the Iranians would be very understanding if the next salvo of Tomahawks fired against ISIS overflies their country....


If we knew the missiles weren't headed for us and we weren't being targeted, I don't see what the problem should be. Iran taking out ISIS fighters, are ISIS fighters we don't have to worry about nor place effort/risk towards. Have at it Iran.....keep on killing them and saving us the work.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:54 am 
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MikeKozlowski wrote:
Micael wrote:
...and Iran launched a few ballistic missiles into Syria as retaliation for the recent terrorist attack.

Not a slow news day in that part of the world.



This one now has me concerned. Those beasts got fired right over the heads of US and Allied troops - there's only two possible explanations and neither one is good. Either they knew exactly what they were doing and were sending a message, or they were pi$$ed and didn't care what they were doing.

Maybe it's time to send a quiet but firm backchannel message: the next time we see missile contacts headed for/over US controlled or allied territory, we are bringing them down.

Mike


Followed by counterbattery fires, unless they deconflict first.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:12 am 
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I don't see the US end-game in Syria at all. This is basically the US acting as IS-airforce. You could hide that back in the Days of CNN ruler of news, but now that angle is being reported by a lot of people around the World and of course by Russia.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:35 am 
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MikeD wrote:
Theodore wrote:
First kill for a Super Hornet, first kill for the Navy since 1991 I think?


I believe so. I think the last attempt was an F-14 in '99 that attempted to kill a MiG-23 with an AIM-54, but missed.

USN Hornets at:

2x Iraq MiG-21s in 1991
1 x Syrian SU-22 current

for the lost of 1 F/A-18 to a MiG-25 in 1991.

Catching up to the USN F-14 Tomcat kill ratio of:

2 x Libyan SU-22s, 1981
1 x USAF RF-4C, 1987
2 x Libyan MiG-23s, 1989
1 x Iraq Mi-8, 1991

With IIAF/IRIAF Tomcats also having numerous air-air victories.


I thought Speicher was KIA due to a SA-2 Guideline...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:45 am 
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Ready for a shooting war with Russia?
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BREAKING: Russia says it will treat US-led coalition planes in Syria, west of the Euphrates, as targets after US downed Syrian jet.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:52 am 
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I have to admit I'm skeptical that weakening Assad actually furthers US or Western interests in general. To me there is a difference between being justified in doing something and it actually being a good idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:54 am 
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Nathan45 wrote:
I have to admit I'm skeptical that weakening Assad actually furthers US or Western interests in general. To me there is a difference between being justified in doing something and it actually being a good idea.


Assad is second only to ISIS as a cause of the refugee situation. ISIS must be eradicated first, then Assad's regime.

Find a strongman who won't use chemical weapons on his people.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:14 am 
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clancyphile wrote:
Nathan45 wrote:
I have to admit I'm skeptical that weakening Assad actually furthers US or Western interests in general. To me there is a difference between being justified in doing something and it actually being a good idea.


Assad is second only to ISIS as a cause of the refugee situation. ISIS must be eradicated first, then Assad's regime.


He and Iran conduct ethnic cleansings to replace Sunni with Shia muslims.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -influence

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -influence

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm 
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clancyphile wrote:

I thought Speicher was KIA due to a SA-2 Guideline...


Was at first thought to be, but later found to have been a MiG-25 that blew through the VFA-81 formation opposite direction, then turned around and tagged them from behind.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:01 pm 
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MikeD wrote:
clancyphile wrote:

I thought Speicher was KIA due to a SA-2 Guideline...


Was at first thought to be, but later found to have been a MiG-25 that blew through the VFA-81 formation opposite direction, then turned around and tagged them from behind.



...And it took a long time for the E-3 community to own up to it, because there's some evidence they never saw the Foxbat.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:40 pm 
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MikeKozlowski wrote:

...And it took a long time for the E-3 community to own up to it, because there's some evidence they never saw the Foxbat.

Mike


Which in the fog of a first-night mass strike, I can see happening. AWACS is generally good, but they're not all seeing and all knowing, they can and do miss stuff. The assumption that the MiG would blow through the Hornet formation and just continue and not circle back around, turned out to be a fatal assumption, just as the assumption that the Eagle CAP was onto those MiGs. These things happen. Sad is how we treated the Speicher situation from the moment he was shot down and on.

E-3 caught some blame for the '94 Blackhawk shootdown also, even though their role in the event ended before the shootdown happened.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:32 pm 
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MikeD wrote:
MikeKozlowski wrote:

...And it took a long time for the E-3 community to own up to it, because there's some evidence they never saw the Foxbat.

Mike


Which in the fog of a first-night mass strike, I can see happening. AWACS is generally good, but they're not all seeing and all knowing, they can and do miss stuff. The assumption that the MiG would blow through the Hornet formation and just continue and not circle back around, turned out to be a fatal assumption, just as the assumption that the Eagle CAP was onto those MiGs. These things happen. Sad is how we treated the Speicher situation from the moment he was shot down and on.

E-3 caught some blame for the '94 Blackhawk shootdown also, even though their role in the event ended before the shootdown happened.


And that was in fact the problem - the AWACS community had a mindset that basically didn't allow for the idea of anything getting through. The attitude was, "if it's up there, we'll see it." That has changed considerably in the 26 years since ODS, but all things considered, the way it happened may have been a blessing in disguise - if that had happened in a Big Contingency scenario, it would have meant a lot more losses before they got a handle on it.

Mke

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