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 Post subject: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:04 pm 
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'USS Bread and Water': Old and rare punishment loomed over a demoralized crew

Sailors aboard the cruiser Shiloh during the 26-month command of Capt. Adam M. Aycock often worried about the CO’s use of one of the Navy’s most arcane punishments: confinement for three days in the brig while being fed only bread and water.

Over time, Aycock’s proclivity for using bread and water to punish junior sailors became well-known on the Yokosuka, Japan, waterfront, where the Shiloh is based, according to sailor comments in three of the ship’s command climate surveys.

“I do not wear my ballcap at the (Navy Exchange store),” one sailor wrote. “Even the taxi drivers on base know us for being the ‘USS Bread and Water.’”

The remainder of the article is here:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy ... ized-crew/


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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Should've handed out 45/45 instead. Bet they'd like that better. No libbo for over six weeks in WESTPAC? Give me three days bread and water, Skipper.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Always leave room to escalate punishment . :)

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?

Note that they weren't decrying an excessive use of Mast for defaulters, just the punishment given to the defaulters. For all we know, the Goat Locker was doing its job.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:19 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?

Note that they weren't decrying an excessive use of Mast for defaulters, just the punishment given to the defaulters. For all we know, the Goat Locker was doing its job.


OK, so the crew doesn't like the punishment at Mast.

He could give 45/45 and if the timing's off, you don't set foot on the pier for three months and miss all the good libbo in the theater.

The other articles basically say the ship is overworked (no surprise), the skipper was watering down CASREPs (no suprise AND I am willing to bet he did so based on C7F guidance).

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:09 pm 
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...And the Shiloh was the same ship where a sailor believed to have fallen overboard turned out to have been hiding in the engine room.

Curious.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:32 am 
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There’s more in this article:

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... jB.twitter


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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:05 am 
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Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:20 am 
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Chairman Rick wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?


It is almost a definition of incompetent leadership.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:30 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Chairman Rick wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?


It is almost a definition of incompetent leadership.


That was my presumption, thank you for the confirmation. It'll be interesting to see the career path of the CO in the coming months.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:51 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Chairman Rick wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?


It is almost a definition of incompetent leadership.


If true, of course. Sometimes, the skipper ends up micromanaging because the goat locker is ROAD.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:04 am 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Chairman Rick wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?


It is almost a definition of incompetent leadership.


After reading the Navy Times article I am astonished that this went on for as long as it did. And i must point out that several retired former CO's said the same thing. This, if true and it appears to be so, is more of the utter meltdown within some portion of the Surface Warfare Officer community. How someone like this could have risen to command is somewhat surprising.

Although......

I recall a certain Chief of Staff of a 3 star command who fit this mold.

And a 4 star AF General.

So one thing is true - the cream rises to the top. So does the scum.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:28 am 
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Nightwatch2 wrote:
After reading the Navy Times article I am astonished that this went on for as long as it did. And i must point out that several retired former CO's said the same thing. This, if true and it appears to be so, is more of the utter meltdown within some portion of the Surface Warfare Officer community. How someone like this could have risen to command is somewhat surprising.

Although......

I recall a certain Chief of Staff of a 3 star command who fit this mold.

And a 4 star AF General.

So one thing is true - the cream rises to the top. So does the scum.

It's another sign of a general meltdown in military leadership. Standards need to be tightened across the board, and incompetents shed. Even, or especially, if it results in a smaller but more competent officer corps.

In no particular order, over the last decade or so we've had:
1. Boeing tanker scandal
2. Malstrom AFB missile officer cheating scandal
3. Minot to Barksdale nuclear missiles
4. Minot missileers sleeping on duty
5. Rapone
6. 7th Fleet surface warfare fleet can't steer the ship
7. Procurement - 'nuff said
8. A carrier XO involved in filming inside a women's shower shipboard
9. Nude photo sharing in the Marine Corp
10. Army classified documents - Petreaus, Manning
11. PACFLT Fat Leonard scandal
and many more.

It's not that they are occurring, bad enough that that is. It's not that they are being disclosed, which is a good thing. It's that there is no perception that anything serious is being done about it. Some O-5 to 0-7s get canned or retired early, some O-2/O-3 get black marks, and it's business as usual.

In some ways, the Soviet military had the right idea. Find a few visible offenders for the scandal, shoot them in the head or send them to count trees, and publish their names and offenses in the military newsletters. Make an example of them.

Or go to the Curtis LeMay/Hyman Rickover school of leadership.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:20 pm 
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This was utterly depressing to read, considering the amount of time that I worked with the USN as an allied Navy.

Agreed with one of the earlier posters, in that our 'swain (Naval Police Coxswain) would have handled these matters, prior to getting to the Captain.

My understanding is that within the USN the cream of the Officer stream goes aviation, SF and to subs, leaving the remainder to the surface fleet.

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:10 pm 
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La Rouge Beret wrote:
This was utterly depressing to read, considering the amount of time that I worked with the USN as an allied Navy.

Agreed with one of the earlier posters, in that our 'swain (Naval Police Coxswain) would have handled these matters, prior to getting to the Captain.

My understanding is that within the USN the cream of the Officer stream goes aviation, SF and to subs, leaving the remainder to the surface fleet.


I wouldn't say that, no. except at the bar maybe.....

I've known some absolutely stellar officers in every warfare specialty. And some real examples of the other kind in every specialty as well.

The Surface Warfare Community has had the reputation for eating its young for a long time.

but what is happening now goes well beyond any of that and quite frankly has infected all of the services and all of the warfare communities, some worse than others. Kdam's list a few posts ago is a pretty good compilation of the problems that have, uh, surfaced.

it looks to me, sitting out here on the sidelines, that the problems run far far deeper than just the SWO's. But the SWO's for some reason have displayed an unusually effective pathology for self destruction of late.

I think this is a generational problem and will take a generation to resolve.

in the meantime, steer clear of USN warships....

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 Post subject: Re: USS Bread and Water
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:16 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Chairman Rick wrote:
Poohbah wrote:
Also, WHERE WAS THE GOAT LOCKER?

Why weren't they handling these issues before they ever got to the Skipper?


From the Navy Times article, "Frequently in focus is the commanding officer’s micromanagement and a neutered chiefs mess." I never served, so asking this question, couldn't a CO's inability to delegate responsibilities down the chain be a sign of incompetent leadership?


It is almost a definition of incompetent leadership.
Concur with Edge.

I've done the three day brig time on bread and water, more than once before I "wised up".
Sure beats 30, 30, and 30 of my old CO.

30 days restriction
30 days extra duty
loss of 1/3 of my pay for 30 days.

I never heard it being handed out in port.
In three days it's all over:
No port and Stbd watches so an RD gets plenty of rack time for a change
The water usually beats mess deck "Bug Juice"
and
I happen to like freshly baked bread. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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