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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Poohbah wrote:
Johnnie Lyle wrote:
You're also the product of trillions of dollars in infrastructure and training, hundreds of dedicated personnel and carte blanche to get anything you want. You also own, or at least have your organization in control of, pretty much everything. Finally, you were the top priority, not an afterthought.

That changes the playing field a lot.

Respectfully, you're rolling around in a top end race car, with full management team, sneering at a guy with his bumper held on by a bungie cord.


The key ingredient, though, is the desire of every single person in the organization to master the mission, and to execute it flawlessly, because the price tag for screwing up is a s***-show like what happened. That sort of basic professionalism can't be purchased with all the money in the world, and trillions of dollars in infrastructure and training can't make up for its lack.

And if you give somebody eight different missions, only enough time or resources for four, and still mandate they do all eight, corners will get cut to try and meet your demand. It'll result in messy, jury-rigged crap if that's all time, money and people will allow, but people will try.

That's what you're seeing - Kevin's ten pounds of smarties in a five pound sack, because people insist on ten pounds of smarties in a five pound sack.

So before you assail folks for incompetence or lack of professionalism, pull their budgets, timeframes, mission taskings, training requirements, other demands on their time, and administrative male bovine excrement they had to contend with, and then ask them why they put together the system they did.

Most likely, you're going to find that command needed something now, and it was the best that could be done in the time and resources provided given all the other taskings issued. That is dedication to mission, given the resources, people and equipment available.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Johnnie Lyle wrote:
You're also the product of trillions of dollars in infrastructure and training, hundreds of dedicated personnel and carte blanche to get anything you want. You also own, or at least have your organization in control of, pretty much everything. Finally, you were the top priority, not an afterthought.

That changes the playing field a lot.

Respectfully, you're rolling around in a top end race car, with full management team, sneering at a guy with his bumper held on by a bungie cord.


The same rules were in effect in the company and now in city government at a much smaller budget.

You can make excuses for them all you want - leaving passwords in plain sight is inexcusable and absolutely stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:23 am 
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Nightwatch2 wrote:
Johnnie Lyle wrote:
You're also the product of trillions of dollars in infrastructure and training, hundreds of dedicated personnel and carte blanche to get anything you want. You also own, or at least have your organization in control of, pretty much everything. Finally, you were the top priority, not an afterthought.

That changes the playing field a lot.

Respectfully, you're rolling around in a top end race car, with full management team, sneering at a guy with his bumper held on by a bungie cord.


The same rules were in effect in the company and now in city government at a much smaller budget.

You can make excuses for them all you want - leaving passwords in plain sight is inexcusable and absolutely stupid.

I was referring to Navy exercises with dedicated personnel, single mission, top of the line equipment and extensive training and exercise budget. That's very different from most civilian emergency management, where it's usually extra duty as assigned, and thus lacks all four of those items.

And will continue to happen as long as you have a password system that pushes hard to remember (and relatively easy to crack) gibberish like khfkhW@h2! instead of longer but easier to remember passwords like "diesel submariners smell awful" or "nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

You can call that making excuses, but it's why the problem keeps happening. Bad design which results in security breaches.

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Jack: So, if the compartment was locked, how did you get in?
Phryne: I hit the lock with me shoe.
Jack: Your shoe seems to have the ballistic capabilities of a .38 revolver.
Phryne: Fancy that.


Last edited by Johnnie Lyle on Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:36 am 
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jemhouston wrote:
Micael wrote:
Johnnie Lyle wrote:
No, it's not impossible.

But it does require a lot of people, time and resources to build and maintain. Which ultimately boils down to political commitment.

For a lot of EM stuff stateside, the politicians want it done now and cheap, or have processes that make getting it done in the time necessary nigh impossible, so we resort to quick and dirty to have something.

Little bit surprising to me that the department of homeland security hasn't tried to coordinate something. Like, commission a system architecture that local organizations can then buy from them. Would probably save some money overall and hopefully get a better product than if everyone cobbles something together themselves.


One system makes it easier to hack. Given how often the Feds are hacked, I'm not sure that's good.

FEMA/Homeland Security doesn't really like one system as much as common operating practice that is customized to meet your needs. They give a lot of freedom to state and local jurisdictions, and generally lean toward "hey, this worked in this situation for these folks" than "do it this way." The only real bits they get dogmatic about are making sure things are compatible and people can understand each other. Which is why they push standardizing equipment specs, everybody calling things the same, and plain, clear language, not jargon or acronym soup.

On the notification system side, both Everbridge (which I am most familiar with) and Alertsense (which Hawaii apparently uses) have optimized message creation for speed, and both tout rapid use of templates and one click dissemination. Alertsense is theoretically an eight step process (you can see it here, but can be cut down to three if you're using a prefab template and adapting. Everbridge may even be faster.

Hawaii deliberately chose single man release authority to speed things up. Given that we've got a bunch of people dead in CA who would probably still be alive had they gotten word out faster, I find that hard to fault. I am very concerned we'll end up with systems where you have cumbersome "authentication" or delays for official approval, and so people end up dead that could have been saved.

While everybody is harping on "oh my God, how did this happen?" I am more concerned with the following:
  • Not everybody got the message
  • Lots of people had no idea what to do once warned

The first one is critical. We have quite a few people dead in Santa Barbara because the notification system failed. Apparently when the National Weather System sent out their warning of flash flooding on the IPAWS system (which is supposed to hit every major carrier like an Amber Alert), Verizon users didn't get it, and even folks at Santa Barbara County OEM didn't know, so they seriously delayed their alert. End result, folks trapped in mudslides. We had similar issues in the Wine Country fires.

The public not knowing what to do is also a big problem. Lots of folks just plain are not prepared, and many still expect government to do it all, no matter how many times we say we are not psychic and are not the cavalry. Again, CA has people dead or destitute because they lacked a go bag. While we've been pretty lucky to avoid another Superdome situation, we have lots more Americans with specialized needs we can't predict or plan for. If folks don't get more proactive, realize they know their needs best and plan, we're inevitably gonna have a situation where we can't get stuff they need in time and people die.

So Hawaii has a real opportunity to address those issues before a disaster occurs, instead of after.

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Jack: So, if the compartment was locked, how did you get in?
Phryne: I hit the lock with me shoe.
Jack: Your shoe seems to have the ballistic capabilities of a .38 revolver.
Phryne: Fancy that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:34 am 
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:lol:

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Hawaiians watched a lot of porn after fake incoming missile alert

Nothing helps people unwind from the terror of an incoming missile like a good dose of porn, apparently.

That’s what PornHub found when it tracked Hawaii’s viewing habits last Sunday. Numbers published Wednesday showed the reported imminent missile strike sent traffic plummeting, and the relief of said missile strike not happening sent the site’s traffic soaring.

When the incoming ballistic missile alert was mistakenly sent out to Hawaii residents at about 8:07 a.m. (“BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.”) Sunday, they lived in fear for about 38 minutes, running for cover, until the Emergency Management Agency corrected the false alert.

PornHub charted a 77 percent plummet in traffic numbers during this time, which isn’t surprising. What’s more interesting — and maybe not surprising, either: It seems a decent number of Hawaii residents celebrated the relief of there being no actual missile by paying a morning visit to PornHub. The website saw a 48 percent spike in normal Sunday traffic numbers around 9 a.m., shortly after the alert was corrected.
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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:03 am 
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I believe fapping during an incoming ballistic missile attack violates several FEMA regulations...

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:12 am 
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Statistics, and bad statistics.

To me, it looks like the cause of the spike was more likely to be many of the people resuming their prior existring porn session than anything else. If we look at the areas under the respective curves, there was actually a fairly overwhelming drop in the total expected traffic from 8:07 to 9:29am. A bout of pornus interruptus, if you will.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:56 am 
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If one browses PornHub one a smartphone, incoming ballistic strikes needn’t be interrupted.

Bad drills, Hawaii. Remember the seven P’s.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:09 pm 
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I wonder if there will be an uptick in "Missile Babies" nine months from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:23 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
I wonder if there will be an uptick in "Missile Babies" nine months from now.

Heard the same thing at work today. I expect a bunch of divorces in the coming year, too. And maybe a few marriages.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... 47bf092d1b

Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:18 am 
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David Newton wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-didnt-correct-false-missile-alert-sooner-because-he-didnt-know-his-twitter-password/?utm_term=.4247bf092d1b

Oh dear.

More like facepalm.

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Phryne: I hit the lock with me shoe.
Jack: Your shoe seems to have the ballistic capabilities of a .38 revolver.
Phryne: Fancy that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:39 am 
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He probably doesn't run it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:44 am 
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He doesn’t need to run his Twitter account. He has the majority of the US mass media working for him, not against him like certain other prolific Twitter users...

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:14 pm 
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David Newton wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-didnt-correct-false-missile-alert-sooner-because-he-didnt-know-his-twitter-password/?utm_term=.4247bf092d1b Oh dear.


I bet President Trump knows his twitter password

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Craiglxviii wrote:
He doesn’t need to run his Twitter account. He has the majority of the US mass media working for him, not against him like certain other prolific Twitter users...

Twitter and other social media are some of your most powerful voice in a disaster, especially for rapid response. Legacy media can make or break your reputation, but are a lot slower methods to get stuff out than Facebook or Twitter.

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Jack: So, if the compartment was locked, how did you get in?
Phryne: I hit the lock with me shoe.
Jack: Your shoe seems to have the ballistic capabilities of a .38 revolver.
Phryne: Fancy that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
David Newton wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/23/hawaii-governor-didnt-correct-false-missile-alert-sooner-because-he-didnt-know-his-twitter-password/?utm_term=.4247bf092d1b Oh dear.


I bet President Trump knows his twitter password

He may not, because he may never log out.

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Jack: So, if the compartment was locked, how did you get in?
Phryne: I hit the lock with me shoe.
Jack: Your shoe seems to have the ballistic capabilities of a .38 revolver.
Phryne: Fancy that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:23 pm 
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His as in Trump's, or as in the Hawaiian governor's? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:29 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
His as in Trump's, or as in the Hawaiian governor's? :D

Quite possibly both . . . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Hawaii missile alert
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:06 pm 
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