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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:13 am 
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ARA San Juan, one of the Armada Argentina's TR1700 submarines, is missing, along with her 37-men crew, and the Argentinean Navy is searching for her. Last known position of her, taken at 0730 Local Time, 11/15/2017, is 46°44' N, 59°54' W, in the Golfo San Jorge area. There are reports of a battery explosion and loss of power, but this is thus far unconfirmed.

Updates as I get them.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:26 am 
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I am very sorry to hear that.

I realize its probably pissing in the wind, but I hope she is located on the surface with damage to the engines and radio preventing movement and communication, rather than at the bottom.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:37 am 
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I think you meant to put that as 46°44' *S*, 59°54' W, otherwise the sub was operating up near Canuckistan.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:42 am 
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TIPOTS... her crew didn’t deserve that.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:41 pm 
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It’s only SUBMISS so far, and an indicated loss of power. Not hearing from her under these conditions is not unusual.

For what it’s worth once the ballast tanks are blown submarines are very seaworthy.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Kreller1 wrote:
I think you meant to put that as 46°44' *S*, 59°54' W, otherwise the sub was operating up near Canuckistan.


Yes, you're correct on that.

EDIT: Just found out the Argentinean Navy has informed there are 44 aboard the ARA San Juan, including the first Argentienan female submarine officer. The last known position of the ARA San Juan is 240 nautical miles from the coast, as shown here: https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/adonde- ... cU31M.html

The USA, UK and Chile have offered "ships and satellites" to help on the search for the missing boat.

EDIT 2: The Argentinean Navy has said that the information of a battery fire/explosion isn't confirmed. Officially, they still don't know what happened beyond the fact they can't contact the submarine. The ARA San Juan was on transit between Ushuaia and Mar del Plata. The Argentinean Navy has ordered the following ships to the search area: ARA Sarandí(MEKO 360), with a Fennec helicopter; ARA Rosales(MEKO 140); ARA Drummond(modified A69)


Last edited by gral on Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:17 pm 
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gral wrote:
Kreller1 wrote:
I think you meant to put that as 46°44' *S*, 59°54' W, otherwise the sub was operating up near Canuckistan.


Yes, you're correct on that.

EDIT: Just found out the Argentinean Navy has informed there are 44 aboard the ARA San Juan, including the first Argentienan female submarine officer. The last known position of the ARA San Juan is 240 nautical miles from the coast, as shown here: https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/adonde- ... cU31M.html

The USA, UK and Chile have offered "ships and satellites" to help on the search for the missing boat.


Here is the approximate location of the submarine's last known position as shown on Google Maps:

Attachment:
Missing-Argentine-Submarine-Location.png
Missing-Argentine-Submarine-Location.png [ 115.24 KiB | Viewed 765 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:08 pm 
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How deep is the water there?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:04 pm 
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There's a very wide continental shelf, but it drops off abruptly into abyssal depths.


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Fig-15-Bottom-topography-of-the-Patagonian-shelf-Note-the-rapid-convergence-of-the.png
Fig-15-Bottom-topography-of-the-Patagonian-shelf-Note-the-rapid-convergence-of-the.png [ 85.32 KiB | Viewed 689 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Here's a perspective view...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:29 pm 
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And another one.
If they are North-West of the Falklands, it's 150~200 metres. If further East, 'No Bottom With This Line'...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:29 pm 
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The USN submarine rescue system is being mobilized in case it is requested. I suspect a few other countries are taking similar actions.
Quote:
NASA Aircraft Joins in Search for Missing Argentine Submarine, 44 Sailors; U.S. Navy Submarine Rescue Crews, Equipment Mobilizing

Sam LaGrone
November 17, 2017 3:09 PM
» » NASA Aircraft Joins in Search for Missing Argentine Submarine, 44 Sailors; U.S. Navy Submarine Rescue Crews, Equipment Mobilizing
November 17, 2017 1:27 PM •


ARA SanJuan

A NASA research aircraft has joined in the search for a missing Argentine submarine and its crew of 44, a defense official told USNI News on Friday.

The NASA P-3 Orion is now looking for the diesel-electric attack boat ARA San Juan (S-42), which has not been heard from since Wednesday, according to press reports from the region.
In addition to the U.S. P-3, the Argentine Armada has dispatched destroyer ARA Sarandí (D-13), and corvettes ARA Rosales (P-42) and ARA Drummond (P-31).

“We are investigating the reasons for the lack of communication,” Argentine naval spokesman Enrique Balbi told reporters, according to Reuters.
“If there was a communication problem, the boat would have to come to the surface.”

The submarine departed from the Argentine Armada naval base in the southern city of Ushuaia, located southwest of the Strait of Magellan, and was headed to its homeport at Mar del Plata, near Buenos Aries. The submarine was last heard from about 250 miles off of Patagonia.

The NASA P-3, a modified anti-submarine warfare platform, had been operating out of Ushuaia as part of its annual Antarctic survey when it was asked to join in the search for the missing submarine, U.S. Southern Command spokesman Jose Ruiz told USNI News.


NASA P-3B Orion

Ruiz said SOUTHCOM was in communication with the State Department and preparing options for a response in case a formal request for assistance were made.

Outside of the NASA aircraft, the U.S. has not been asked to contribute assets to the search but is preparing specialized submarine rescue equipment in anticipation of a request from Buenos Aries, USNI News has learned.

U.S. Navy Undersea Rescue Command is mobilizing the specialized submarine rescue equipment and personnel in San Diego to crew the Submarine Rescue Diving and Recompression System (SRDRS), two defense officials confirmed to USNI News.

The system can be transported via cargo aircraft and loaded onto a surface ship for rescue operations.

San Juan is one of three Argentine Armada submarines. The German-built TR-1700 attack boat joined the fleet in 1985 and completed a midlife upgrade in 2013, U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World author Eric Wertheim told USNI News on Friday.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Looks like the spot straddles the shelf and the slope. Not good. Wiki says the sub's test depth is 300 meters (980 ft).

Cross fingers and say a prayer for them and their families.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:33 pm 
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... and just as I had posted from above I got word from a Swedish submarine officer that ISMERLO ( http://www.ismerlo.org ) has been activated. So the Swedish submarine rescue system is being mobilized to active standby awaiting potential deployment.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:38 pm 
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A tidbit that appears to have come from Argentine media says that the depth where the last contact was is 350 meters and the maximum dive depth of the submarine is 300 meters. Depending on what the safety margin is I suppose there’s a chance that it could stay intact.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Safety margin is a lot higher than that, but the main issue is poisonous gases at partial pressure.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Them safe from peril in the deep.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Well said Poohbah.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Micael wrote:
A tidbit that appears to have come from Argentine media says that the depth where the last contact was is 350 meters and the maximum dive depth of the submarine is 300 meters. Depending on what the safety margin is I suppose there’s a chance that it could stay intact.


There are actually three relevant figures here. Maximum safe depth (the depth the sub can dive to), Maximum diving depth (also known as never-exceed depth, where the sub is OK, just, but things like seals etc are starting to give way and the hull is running through fatigue life fast) and crush depth (where the pressure hull goes splat).

The safety margins between each level are huge. At least 35 percent between each level and up to two or three times that. I have heard that the crush depth of the TR-1700 is as much as 700 meters but I can't confirm that.

By the way, the TR1500 and TR1700 are not related to the Klasse 209/210/212/214/216/218 family.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:58 am 
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The search area appears to be right at the transition from ”not that deep” to ”very deep”.
Image
Image

USN P-8As are joining the SAR effort. Must be a real needle in the haystack situation though.

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