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 Post subject: Another LCS breakdown
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Reportedly the brand-new LITTLE ROCK (LCS-9) left Buffalo Wednesday after her commissioning and is now lying at Port Colborne, Ontario, having broken down before she could even get off Lake Erie. This may be a new record - the rest of them have at least reached salt water before suffering a breakdown...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Theodore wrote:
before she could even get off Lake Erie.


Has the media tried to claim this is Trump violating the "no warships on the Great Lakes" treaty yet?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Is this an actual breakdown, OR stopping to get some fenders welded for the transit down the canal, and the rest of the seaway? The average helmsman has no experience driving into locks. And fenders would be needed to reduce the oncoming dings and dents for the transit downbound


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:55 pm 
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I guess fenders are important for a ship that spends all its time alongside. They should be fitted at the builders' yard...

She was in Buffalo for two weeks so that could have been done there, and no other LCS have stopped at Port Colborne. Left out the link earlier, story from http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2017/12/20 ... t-colborne

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Umm...Port Colborne is the other direction from salt water if you’re leaving Buffalo. My theory is that they wanted to go to the HMCS Ojibwa museum in Port Burwell to learn about real matelots but had to rest up first.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:54 am 
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Port Colborne, is above lock 8, Before you enter downbound. Eg - before you enter the system. You can turn around yet, but if you picking up stores, or making adjustments, the East Wall above Lock 8 is the place to do it

**The video is a nothingburger, that's the pilot boat going out to them , and not much else. Does look like some fenders -tiny ones - welded in place already


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:35 am 
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Looking at the mechanical history to date for something I have been doing, there's a pattern developing wherein the MT-30 powered LCS-1 class is having significantly more problems with its machinery than the LM-2500 powered LCS-2 class. Now, to some extent one might expect that since the LM2500 is a well-proven and well-established entity but the difference is disproportional. We know that WR-21 is a serious issue ; there's beginning to be concern that MT-30 has its problems as well

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
Looking at the mechanical history to date for something I have been doing, there's a pattern developing wherein the MT-30 powered LCS-1 class is having significantly more problems with its machinery than the LM-2500 powered LCS-2 class. Now, to some extent one might expect that since the LM2500 is a well-proven and well-established entity but the difference is disproportional. We know that WR-21 is a serious issue ; there's beginning to be concern that MT-30 has its problems as well

Is this also affecting other MT30 installations, or is it unique to the configuration of the LCS version.

Wouldn't be the first time that the DOD has taken a reliable system and made it into dog poo.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:36 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
Is this also affecting other MT30 installations, or is it unique to the configuration of the LCS version. Wouldn't be the first time that the DOD has taken a reliable system and made it into dog poo.


At the moment, the LCS installation is the only in-service MT-30 power train that has been thoroughly wrung out in service conditions. The LCS installation is also cramped and a diesel hybrid, neither of which is promising. The worrying point is that the RN is dependent on the MT-30 for its future fleet (and, having made a right mess of the WR-21 installation on the Type 45, hasn't got much in the way of options). In a year's time we should know whether the MT-30 issues are unique to LCS or a sign of a more general problem.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Whatever the problem was, she's back underway; AIS shows her in the St. Lawrence now.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:24 am 
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AIS now shows her moored below the Snell Lock. KenH, you seem to know the Seaway; any particular reason a downbound ship might stop after transiting that lock?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Below Snell? Likely traffic. or maybe pilot. Could also be waiting for daylight for the winter piloting rules. Ice too, this time of year. Tying up there is not cool for upbound traffic landing on the wall there, there's a lot more of current coming out of the north side which makes more wall the better good.


** Just looked, they tied up near the end of wall. But further down the river from traffic might be pilot shortage. I do not discount the Seaway being incompetent asses, that likely has not changed......
Looks like only one upbound in system they'll see in a few hours from now, so....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:36 pm 
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The Bushranger wrote:
Theodore wrote:
before she could even get off Lake Erie.


Has the media tried to claim this is Trump violating the "no warships on the Great Lakes" treaty yet?


You are joking about such a treaty, aren't you?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:58 pm 
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M.Becker wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:
Theodore wrote:
before she could even get off Lake Erie.


Has the media tried to claim this is Trump violating the "no warships on the Great Lakes" treaty yet?


You are joking about such a treaty, aren't you?

I suspect not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush-Bagot_Treaty

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Looka like the scene in Empire with 3 ImpStars right now above Upper Beauharnois, I can only assume trying to tie up there....... will advise when is more rational there.... :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:55 am 
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Looks like they pressing on. Be in the South Shore Canal in about 15 min, in the Cote about an hour after that


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:03 am 
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Quote:
You are joking about such a treaty, aren't you?
I suspect not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush-Bagot_Treaty



...FWIW, when I was muchmuchmuchmuch younger, we would get USN visitors quite frequently at Cleveland, Toledo, and Lorain*, and all of them officially at least had to download all ammo except for small arms before entering the Lakes. In addition, my dad was part of the design team that built the Thai frigate HTMS Tapi at AMSHIP Toledo, and pro forma permission had to be granted by US Department of State and Canada's Foreign Ministry in order to test fire her main armament.

Image

As Dad remembers, the Thai navy was firm in requesting that all armament be test fired (and more than just a few rounds, too) before accepting the ship for the trip home. On the other hand, the USCG's 210' cutters that were built at Toledo and Lorain didn't test fire at all before acceptance and as far as he remembers weren't until they got to their home ports, although they were tested for rotation, elevation, etc. I honestly don't know what the drill is on the LCSs being built on the Lakes, though given the way the USN has handled the program so far, I don't doubt that anything gets fired until the crew is aboard and working up.

Mike

*For several years running we got several-day visits by the handful of Nasty/Osprey PTs the USN operated. Not sure what the crew thought of being in Lorain for three or four days running, but they were always polite and professional.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Looks like they tied up just below the Old Port of Montreal below the passenger terminals. Maybe supplies, or port visit. Pilots needed anyway down to Escoumins


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:30 am 
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Re: Warships on the Great Lakes.
I assume the Canadian gov't was willing to give permission for the USN to operate the world's only paddle-wheel aircraft carriers in Lake Michigan… though I guess Michigan is the only one of the five lakes that is entirely within in U.S borders.
A few years ago, in an idle moment of thinking about Battleship trivia, I wondered how many USN battleships had made, or could have made (2 questions) port visits in their namesake states. As I recall, a modern full-scale replica of USS Ohio could make it through the Seaway, but the original was scrapped before the St. Lawrence corridor was made accessible to ships of its size.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:39 am 
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Allen Hazen wrote:
Re: Warships on the Great Lakes.
I assume the Canadian gov't was willing to give permission for the USN to operate the world's only paddle-wheel aircraft carriers in Lake Michigan… though I guess Michigan is the only one of the five lakes that is entirely within in U.S borders.


From what I remember, Lake Michigan is still counted in the treaty technically? But Sable and Wolverine were unarmed and thus exempt from the treaty.

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