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 Post subject: Zumwalt and Ford Classes
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:21 pm 
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I haven't seen anything recently on either. Any idea how they're doing?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:48 pm 
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It's quiet, too darned quiet . . . . . . .

Seriously, I haven't heard anything substantive yet. Usually, successful trials for a first-of-class get trumpeted and that isn't happening. The DDG-1000 and DDG-1001 have been suffering from machinery problems including water leaking in via the lubricating system. That's probably not too serious but I haven't heard anything substantive about seakeeping yet

Apparently Ford has done well on finals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Francis Urquhart wrote:
It's quiet, too darned quiet . . . . . . .

Seriously, I haven't heard anything substantive yet. Usually, successful trials for a first-of-class get trumpeted and that isn't happening. The DDG-1000 and DDG-1001 have been suffering from machinery problems including water leaking in via the lubricating system. That's probably not too serious but I haven't heard anything substantive about seakeeping yet

Apparently Ford has done well on finals.

In September 2016, when I was in Bath Maine at the Maine Maritime Museum waiting to see DDG-1000 leave Bath Iron Works for the last time, I asked a museum docent who was a retired yard manager for BIW if the Zumwalt's hullform had exhibited any of the instabilities that had been predicted by the ship's critics.

He knew exactly where I was coming from, and he looked me over carefully before giving this reply: "In all of the sea trials conducted so far, the Navy has been happy with the Zumwalt's seakeeping performance." I think his response was as complete and as honest an answer as any non-BIW person was going to get.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:35 pm 
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on the Ford -

I am still "curious" about how well those electromagnetic catapults will work in EMCON.

that I've never heard an answer tells me a lot.....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:55 pm 
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USNI News had a story up the other about Zumwalt's AGS (Advanced Gun System). Remember that the long range shell (100+ miles) was canceled last year and the gun system was designed around it. They've announced that they've given up trying to find a replacement shell for the moment.

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A year after the Navy decided to abandon the Long Range Land Attack Projectile (LRLAP) for the Zumwalt-class guided-missile destroyer, there is no plan in place for a replacement round for the Advanced Gun System (AGS) the ships are built around, service officials said on Wednesday.

Instead, officials at Naval Sea Systems Command and the Chief of Naval Operations staff will monitor new technologies that could be incorporated into the BAE Systems-built 155mm AGS.

“There is not a plan now for a material specific solution for the replacement round. We continue to monitor industry’s development and technical maturation,” former USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000) commander Capt. James Kirk, who now works at the Navy’s surface warfare directorate, said at the annual Surface Navy Association symposium.
“An example of that is the hypervelocity projectile. We’re monitoring that technical maturation to see if we get the ranges and the capabilities that’s the right bang for the buck.”

The Navy canceled a planned buy of the 2,000 rocket-assisted Lockheed Martin LRLAP rounds that were custom-designed for the AGS system that was set to be the heart of the Zumwalt class. However, the cost of each round rose to about $1 million and proved too costly for the service. In 2016 the Navy was moving toward modifying the Raytheon Excalibur guided 155mm artillery round to fill the space of the LRLAP, but the service has since scrapped those plans.

On a visit to the ship in 2016, program officials told USNI News the unique low-twist nature of the AGS barrel would make the modification of the system accommodate a new round a difficult proposition.

With no new round on the horizon and the fielding of a hypervelocity projectile possibly a decade away, the focus of the ship will now be on long-range surface and land strike missions, Kirk said on Wednesday.

https://news.usni.org/2018/01/11/no-new ... g-industry.

It has less VLS slots than a Burke. If it had the full radar it was suppose to have could them have tried it out as a AAW ship for the carriers?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:45 pm 
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nomad990 wrote:
USNI News had a story up the other about Zumwalt's AGS (Advanced Gun System). Remember that the long range shell (100+ miles) was canceled last year and the gun system was designed around it. They've announced that they've given up trying to find a replacement shell for the moment.

https://news.usni.org/2018/01/11/no-new ... g-industry.

It has less VLS slots than a Burke. If it had the full radar it was suppose to have could them have tried it out as a AAW ship for the carriers?

It was fairly evident from 2009 on, after cancellation of 5-inch ERGM, that the LRLAP's days were numbered, even if the six AGS gun systems that had been procured eventually found themselves being mounted aboard the three Zumwalts.

The AGS gun, receiver. loader, and internal automated magazine are all configured end-to-end for an LRLAP or LRLAP-like two-segment round. It is not possible to use a different type of round without making significant changes to all four major components of the AGS system.

Why would you do that if 155 mm AGS was not likely to be mounted aboard any other warship class but the Zumwalts? The Navy's announcement that no projectiles will be procured is merely CYA for a decision which was already completely locked in two years before, through the inevitable course of events.

I think this is why back in 2009, Norman Polmar was advocating for replacing the two AGS guns with a centerline Mk41 VLS system for the three programmed Zumwalts, even if it meant a substantial design change. At least you would get three warships with substantial VLS capacity for the money you were spending.

Back in 2016, I asked the docent at the Maine Maritime Museum if he had any thoughts about why the Zumwalt Class had been truncated to only three ships, and Burke Class production restarted. He said, "Why would you buy a Zumwalt for $4 billion dollars (plus) when you can buy a Burke for $2 billion and have a destroyer which is arguably a more powerfull warship?"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Why would you design a weapon in a NATO standard caliber that couldn't take NATO standard ammo?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:07 pm 
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jemhouston wrote:
Why would you design a weapon in a NATO standard caliber that couldn't take NATO standard ammo?

After the capability for handling conventional 155mm rounds was dropped from the AGS specification -- that happened in 2003 or in 2004 -- the specification of "155mm" was basically a target-effects performance equivalency figure.

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