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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Judge backs city's ban on Occupy Wall Street protesters' tents at Zuccotti
Protesters will likely appeal ruling
BY Matthew Lysiak , Rich Schapiro , Christina Boyle & Tracy Connor
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Originally Published: Tuesday, November 15 2011, 8:29 AM
Updated: Tuesday, November 15 2011, 5:02 PM

Hours after baton-wielding cops cleared Occupy Wall Street protesters and their tents from
Zuccotti Park on Tuesday, a judge backed the clean sweep.

The ruling by Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Michael Stallman says that city can stop protesters from bringing tents, tarps and other camping equipment into the park.

The decision is likely to be appealed, so it was unclear if the city would immediately reopen the park to people without tents.

Some Occupy Wall Street protesters had already moved to another public space, owned by Trinity Church, at Canal St. and Sixth Ave., where they used bolt cutters to open a fenced-in area.

Police swooped in and made numerous arrests. Daily News reporter Matt Lysiak was among several reporters covering the confrontation who were arrested.

Other demonstrators were massed around Zuccotti, where the overnight raid netted the arrest of 200 people, including Manhattan Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez.

The park was eerily clean and empty. The only people inside were employees of property owner Brookfield Properties, which asked for the city crackdown in a Monday letter to Mayor Bloomberg.

About 50 people had been allowed back in at 8:10 a.m. — before the NYPD closed the park again until the fast-developing legal issues could be sorted out.

A handful jumped the fence to get into the park around 11:30 a.m. and several were arrested.

“They are in contempt of court,” said Wes Trexler, a musician from Bushwick, Brooklyn, complaining that the city didn’t immediately comply with the temporary court order.

“Whose park? Our park!” protesters chanted. “They stole our freaking tents from the 99%!”

“That was my home,” said Shane Stoops, 23, an occupier from Seattle who said he had been at Zuccotti since the dawn of the protest Sept. 17.

“You see all those garbage trucks? That’s where I live now. They took my life... all my clothes, my four-man tent and mattress, all of my books and three years of drawings.”

Bloomberg said it was his call to move in on the protesters following reports of lawlessness and the injury of an EMS worker trying to assist a mentally ill man.

“The final decision to act was mine, and mine alone," he said at a press conference.

"We could not wait for someone in the park to get killed or injure another person before acting.”

He said the city planned all along to let the anti-greed movement return to Zuccotti as soon as it was cleaned — without the trappings of the tent city.

But lawyers for Occupy Wall Street got Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Lucy Billings, a former ACLU lawyer, to sign an order at 6:30 a.m. that explicitly said they should be allowed in with “tents and other property.”

“We called her. She came and signed the papers,” said lawyer Daniel Alterman, refusing to say why they zeroed in on Billings.

“They trampled on the Constitution. They tossed it in the garbage,” he added, likening the mayor to “a small rodent.”

A hearing on the temporary order was held before Justice Michael Stallman, who was chosen at random by computer to handle the case.

The city argued that Zuccotti had become a threat to public safety, rife with crime and fire hazards. The protesters said banning tents would infringe upon their First Amendment rights.

“The power of this symbolic speech is that it's a 24-hour occupation. This conveys a special message," said OWS lawyer Allan Levine.

Stallman said he would issue a written ruling.

Officials said if the city and Brookfield prevail in court, security will stop anyone from entering the park with tents or tarps.

“They will not be allowed to lie down,” Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

If OWS emerges from the hearing with a victory, protesters could theoretically start rebuilding the tent village, which was equipped with a kitchen, media area and first-aid facility.

The operation to dismantle the encampment began around 1 a.m. when hundreds of cops surrounded the park and used a bullhorn to notify protesters that sanitation trucks would be clearing out the site.

“If you fail to immediately leave the park, you will be subject to arrest," they said.

The protesters were defiant at first, chanting: "Whose park? Our park! No retreat. No surrender!"

"When the cops closed in, people tried to hold on to one another. Cops pulled people out, but we went back in," said Jose Mediaville, 29, a former Marine from Brooklyn. "A white shirt got frustrated. He yelled, 'Come on, let's do this.'

"I tried to avoid them, but they got me. They smashed people in the hands and broke the human chain. They lifted me up and threw me out like a rag doll," he said.

Police began tearing up the tents after throwing reporters out of the park and corralling the protesters in the center.

"Everybody stay calm, the police want you to become violent," protesters shouted. "Do not become violent. Pass the message."

One protester, 32, who gave his name as Daryl W, called his mother. "We're about to be raided I just thought I'd let you know I love you bye," he said.

Some protesters sang the Beatles song "Revolution." Helicopters flew noisily overhead.

"I have not broken the law tonight," yelled Eamon O'Rourke as cops stuffed him into a squad car.

Paul Kostora, head of the medical tent, said he was working with a patient when police pulled him away.

"They pulled me out stethoscope, white coat and all as I was telling them I have a patient in there," he said. "One girl has a heart condition and wasn't feeling well. They manhandled her and threw her on the ground."

Rodriguez, the councilman, was among 28 protesters arrested at Broadway and Cortlandt St. at 1:45 a.m. for allegedly trying to get past barricades and back to Zuccotti.

“The City Council member was arrested and bloodied,” said protest lawyer Yetta Kurland. “He was cut on his face.”

By 3:30 a.m., cops had cleared the kitchen area of the park, where protesters had formed a human chain, cuffed those arrested with plastic ties and loaded them in vans.

Cleaning crews then scrubbed and scraped every flat surface of the park.

A few hours later, iron worker Mike Dalton, 40, reporting to work at the Freedom Tower, marveled at the transformation.

“It’s nice to see the floor of the park again. Protesting is one thing but it turned into squatting,” said the Mineola, L.I., hardhat.

The Tuesday morning showdown came after protesters had vowed to "shut down Wall St." on Thursday to mark two months of occupation.

"It's still on. It'll be bigger than ever. People are mobilizing now. They're wounded now and preparing for comeback," said Matt Baldwin.

With Tina Moore, Matthew Lysiak, Jennifer H. Cunningham, Rocco Parascandola, Erin Einhorn, Kerry Wills, Joe Kemp and Barbara Ross

What the OWSers don't understand is that Zucotti park is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The second the owners, in this case Brookfield Properties, asks them to leave they MUST leave. If not, they're tresspassing, and Brookfield has every legal right to send in the cops to arrest them.

Some of the public spaces various OWS protest groups have occupied make things more complicated, but Brookfield has the same rights on Zuccoti park that I do with people in my front yard. When I say get, you get.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Guess they shouldn't have threatened to shut down the subway system and the NYSE.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:03 am 
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Rob Herrick wrote:
What the OWSers don't understand is that Zucotti park is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The second the owners, in this case Brookfield Properties, asks them to leave they MUST leave. If not, they're tresspassing, and Brookfield has every legal right to send in the cops to arrest them.

Some of the public spaces various OWS protest groups have occupied make things more complicated, but Brookfield has the same rights on Zuccoti park that I do with people in my front yard. When I say get, you get.


They don't dare exercise those rights in the face of a criminal City regime that supports the rebels. They are too afraid of New York's corrupt permitting process.

Hang a OWSer from every lamp post on Wall Street. Break the rest of their heads.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:37 am 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Rob Herrick wrote:
What the OWSers don't understand is that Zucotti park is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The second the owners, in this case Brookfield Properties, asks them to leave they MUST leave. If not, they're tresspassing, and Brookfield has every legal right to send in the cops to arrest them.

Some of the public spaces various OWS protest groups have occupied make things more complicated, but Brookfield has the same rights on Zuccoti park that I do with people in my front yard. When I say get, you get.


They don't dare exercise those rights in the face of a criminal City regime that supports the rebels. They are too afraid of New York's corrupt permitting process.

Hang a OWSer from every lamp post on Wall Street. Break the rest of their heads.


I calling you out on this. Why do you want to do this? Lynching them won't make their point any less valid. Sure, the criminals need to be arrested, but let the rest protest peacefully.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:45 am 
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Not saying I agree with Dennis completely, but not saying "no" either. But Winston, you must understand that many of the people doing this protesting are professional whiners. They get paid to make a scene. I have no use for such drivel. And these 'kids' that are bitching about school debt, etc.? They studied and got degrees in areas such "Ancient Mesopotamian Basket Weaving" just as a ludicris example- what possible need are there for such in a depressed worldwide economy?

I know you have a socialist streak that is strong in you, Winston. But try to look at it from other perspectives. Over here across the pond, we ARE more ocnservative and most of us do not hold with these whiny little spoiled brats. If they were my kids, suffice to say an arse whooping would be in store. I also have already told my kids if you get arrested doing something stupid, don't bother calling me. And they understand why!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Here's another solution - Trespassing charges

The landowner puts up signs that people are not allowed in the park after 8pm or 9pm. State that persons in the park after that time without the written permission of the landowner will be cited for trespassing. Follow the statutes for affirmative notice for that state. (in Texas, a fenced enclosure with a locked gate is considered notice while in Minnesota, the individual has to be directly informed and trespassing is only for the next intrusion.)

At 10pm, get NYPD or whichever other police group to make rounds through the encampment issuing citations. If they don't have ID or lie about it, that's Failure to Identify and adds another charge onto it. Make another round at midnight, 2am, and 4am. The rabble will either leave because of the cumulative cost of the fines, or the city makes some money off of them.

This would also be a solution for St Paul's Cathedral, and avoid the months of legal wrangling that the news here is discussing, since the Met won't be evicting them like New York did.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Winston Smith wrote:
I calling you out on this. Why do you want to do this? Lynching them won't make their point any less valid. Sure, the criminals need to be arrested, but let the rest protest peacefully.


Winston, you don't "call people out" here. You discuss things with them. Just a friendly word.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:18 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
Here's another solution - Trespassing charges

The landowner puts up signs that people are not allowed in the park after 8pm or 9pm. State that persons in the park after that time without the written permission of the landowner will be cited for trespassing. Follow the statutes for affirmative notice for that state. (in Texas, a fenced enclosure with a locked gate is considered notice while in Minnesota, the individual has to be directly informed and trespassing is only for the next intrusion.) At 10pm, get NYPD or whichever other police group to make rounds through the encampment issuing citations. If they don't have ID or lie about it, that's Failure to Identify and adds another charge onto it. Make another round at midnight, 2am, and 4am. The rabble will either leave because of the cumulative cost of the fines, or the city makes some money off of them.
This would also be a solution for St Paul's Cathedral, and avoid the months of legal wrangling that the news here is discussing, since the Met won't be evicting them like New York did.


I think this is pretty much what is being done. The problem comes with municipal land which is technically owned in common by the residents of the community. Of course a simple way of handling that is to throw out everybody who isn't from the local community. I don't believe there is actually a legal problem in all this; what is lacking is the will to use the legal remedies that already exist. That's an issue not just restricted to this case though

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Winston, you don't "call people out" here.


I thought calling people out was allowed, as long as the time, place and choice of weapons was reasonable.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Examples of reasonable would be as follows:

As soon as possible, at the local bar, full mugs of beer for minor disputes.

Now, if you caught a member of the board in flagrante dilecto with your significant other, then it might be better as follows:

As soon as I can clear "Danger Close", the offenders current location, and thermonuclear warheads.

Belushi TD


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Frankly, these "protestors" are extremely fortunate that it is Mr. Bloomberg and not Mr. Giuliani who holds the office of Mayor of New York City. I would have paid good money to watch the NYPD in action had Rudy been in office and dealing with the "occupiers"... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Winston Smith wrote:
I calling you out on this. Why do you want to do this? Lynching them won't make their point any less valid. Sure, the criminals need to be arrested, but let the rest protest peacefully.


Where shall my second call upon you, boy?

I don't want to lynch them. I'd be happy to try them by Counter-revolutionary court befire I hang them. That should take about five minutes per OWSer.

They are fighting against my country and the prosperity of my children and grandchildren. They are cirrational and dangerous. Their existence is partly a factor of not having conducted mass executions of communist agents as a result of the McCarthy and House Unamerican Activities investigations.

I am not a nice person. They have taught me hate. Now I want them dead.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:13 pm 
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KDahm wrote:
Here's another solution - Trespassing charges


I think the private landowners are afraid of the corrupt power of the New York City government to make their lives a regulatory and financial hell. Leftists and other criminals have a track record of doing that.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:15 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
They don't dare exercise those rights in the face of a criminal City regime that supports the rebels. They are too afraid of New York's corrupt permitting process.


That's been, frankly, the most amusing part of this - watching Democrat mayors (and Bloomberg, who is a Democrat liberal nannystater in everything but name) squirm as these things get out of control.

The fundamental problems with OWS (setting aside their cause(s), which is a whole post in and of itself) that have resulted in the destruction of the movement by their supposed allies are threefold:

1) They've been granted a pass on basic standards of civil behavior because their cause is considered special - and Democrats hoped to use it to their political advantage. Every single OWS camp I have heard of is in violation of numerous city laws. The cops should have treated them the same way they treat anybody else committing vagrancy - "move along." Instead, they were granted a pass. This has caused serious problems up and down the line, from sanitation issues to drugs, robbery, rape and murder.

It has also combined with the motivator driving the OWS set - the idea that they are entitled to whatever they want to have, whenever they want to have it, at no cost to themselves. OWS - individually and as a group - thinks they have a right to behave in an illegal manner, because they have been coddled. The end result is a bunch of people who have nothing but contempt for the laws that are supposed to keep things orderlyl. The violence around closings is the inevitable reaction to delayed application of law to a populace who'd grown accustomed to the lack of it. This was entirely avoidable with even a modicum of planning by both sides.

2) OWS has no control whatsoever over the behavior of it's membership. This is brought home most graphically in Oakland, where you see lots of OWSers shouting for people to be peaceful and not get violent, yet they cannot or will not (you decide) stop people from throwing rocks, vandalizing property, committing assault, or trying to break into other people's property. OWS camps also can not control the rampant criminality amongst them - from the extensive drug use at Occupy Los Angeles, theft at OWS camps across the board, rape at OWS camps across the board, and even murder (a knifing in Oakland). Failure to self-police results in an environment that is dangerous for everybody and can no longer be ignored.

3) Lack of co-operation with law enforcement. No OWS camp has made efforts to co-operate with local law enforcement to handle the crime problems or sanitation problems. In fact, many go out of their way to prevent law enforcement from doing their jobs, and even to prevent OWSers from reporting crime to local law enforcement. This has created an adversarial situation between law enforcement and OWS even in cities where the city government was willing to grant OWS wide latitude in violating city ordinances. Lack of a cordial relationship also feeds back into #2, because being unwilling to co-operate with LEOs to make it a safe and clean protest for all has thrown the entire burden of policing on OWS, an organization manifestly unable to self-police.

Allowing these people a taste of reality in the hope of stripping away the turtle fat up has failed - all it has done is breed further lack of understanding of basic reality. OWS has become a serious threat to the safety of the people participating in it, not just the people around it - while significantly undermining the credibility of their political viability. Thus, even the friendliest of city governments have no choice but to close them down.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Ideologically, they appear to be more related to the anarchist movement than to anything else. I'm seeing the same sort of rhetoric that theyu used when they burned Seattle a couple of years ago, and attacked the various international financial conferences. If they have a motto, it allears to be Loot Rape Pillage and Burn.

We've dealt with barbarian savages before. We've done so in a rather unpleasant manner. Since it's considered impolite to sell them into the merciful institution of slavery, we're stuck with liquidating them.

Hanging is the green solution.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:32 pm 
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edgeplay_cgo wrote:
Ideologically, they appear to be more related to the anarchist movement than to anything else. I'm seeing the same sort of rhetoric that theyu used when they burned Seattle a couple of years ago, and attacked the various international financial conferences. If they have a motto, it allears to be Loot Rape Pillage and Burn.


I should have listed that among the root causes of the problem: lack of overall ideology.

The Tea Party, which does not have a central structure, does have ideological consistency driving it. OWS does not. While it's members are overwhelmingly liberal, very liberal, or socialist (only 2% of New York OWSers self-identify as Republican or conservative), there is no central ideological structure. The goals, platforms and aims of OWS are different with every OWSer - and the movement has resisted attempts to coalesce and form a platform. OWS is much like Barack Obama in 2008 - a blank sheet that members project their ideology and pet causes onto. That resistance to forming a platform means they cannot say "this and this we believe, while this we do not."

Because it has a central platform and local organization, the Tea Parties can repudiate nuts and agents provocateur - and have been very successful at doing so. OWS can't, because it cannot begin to agree on who's a nut, while it's organizationally unwilling to kick the nuts out.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Winston Smith wrote:
I calling you out on this.


Challenge Dennis to a drinking contest. You'll live longer.

Winston Smith wrote:
Why do you want to do this? Lynching them won't make their point any less valid. Sure, the criminals need to be arrested, but let the rest protest peacefully.


Winston, damn near every person in an OWS camp is a criminal. It's illegal to set up shantytowns on public property in most cities - and you can bet your ass that any non-leftist protest would have been sent packing ASAP. If they want to protest, fine - but comply with the law or be willing to take your lumps. Don't act like you're above it because you think your cause is just. Get a hotel room. Rent an RV and park it in a supporter's driveway. Crash on somebody's couch. Don't expect us to indulge your criminality because you're special.

Hell, the various OWS organizations are making bank, while the average OWS protester is RICH (median value of places reported as place of residence for OWSers was $340,000, IIRC). They can afford a few vans and some hotel rooms.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Rob Herrick wrote:
Winston Smith wrote:
I calling you out on this.


Challenge Dennis to a drinking contest. You'll live longer.

Winston Smith wrote:
Why do you want to do this? Lynching them won't make their point any less valid. Sure, the criminals need to be arrested, but let the rest protest peacefully.


Winston, damn near every person in an OWS camp is a criminal. It's illegal to set up shantytowns on public property in most cities - and you can bet your ass that any non-leftist protest would have been sent packing ASAP. If they want to protest, fine - but comply with the law or be willing to take your lumps. Don't act like you're above it because you think your cause is just. Get a hotel room. Rent an RV and park it in a supporter's driveway. Crash on somebody's couch. Don't expect us to indulge your criminality because you're special.

Hell, the various OWS organizations are making bank, while the average OWS protester is RICH (median value of places reported as place of residence for OWSers was $340,000, IIRC). They can afford a few vans and some hotel rooms.


I think renting out a hotel room would defeat the point... and where are you getting those figures on the OWS BTW? As well as the criminality ones.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:15 pm 
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For Winston. I was incorrect - the median home value for OWSers arrested was only $305,000.

NYC arrest records: Many Occupy Wall Street protesters live in luxury
Published: 12:45 AM 11/02/2011 | Updated: 11:26 PM 11/02/2011
By Will Rahn

Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City reside in more luxurious homes than some of their rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found.

For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.

Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.

Some of the homes where “Occupy” arrestees reside, viewed through Google Maps and the Multiple Listing Service real estate database, are the definition of opulence.

Using county assessors and online resources such as Zillow.com, TheDC estimated property values and rents for 87 percent of the homes and 59 percent of the apartments listed in the arrest records.

Even in the nation’s currently depressed housing market, at least 95 of the protesters’ residences are worth approximately $500,000 or more. (RELATED SLIDESHOW: Opulent homes of the ’99 percent’)

The median monthly rent for those living in apartments whose information is readily available is $1,850.

Of the 984 protesters arrested, at least 797 are white. The median age of “Occupy” protesters taken into custody is 27 years.

Ten demonstrators were arrested more than once. The vast majority of the arrests, it should be noted, were for nonviolent offenses.

The arrest intake documents show that arrestees came to New York from all over the country but particularly from the Northeast.

Criminal charges ranged from “loitering while wearing a mask” and “failure to move along” to “violent behavior” and other more serious charges such as “assault 2 [second-degree assault] caus[ing] physical injury to police [or] firemen.” There was also one charge of “sex abuse 3 [third-degree].” Hundreds were arrested on October 1 for obstructing traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge.

While it would not be fair to conclude that the arrested protesters are fully representative of a movement that is not completely understood, this information forms the most complete snapshot yet of the demonstrations’ more militant participants.

It also reinforces the persistent critique of protesters as entitled, upper-class agitators with few legitimate grievances.

London’s Daily Mail newspaper, for example, recently highlighted signs of wealth among the throngs in Zuccotti Park.

“Sleeping beside the hardcore activists are increasing numbers of wealthy students turning up to make the most of the party atmosphere, drugs and free food,” reporters Paul Bentley and Micela McLucas wrote in October. “While they dress down to blend in, the youngsters’ privileged backgrounds are revealed by glimpses of expensive gadgetry or the absent minded mention of their private schools during heated political debates.”

“I think that it’s accurate to say that our supporters come from all backgrounds,” Patrick Bruner, the operator of OccupyWallStreet.org, a website dedicated to help organize and spread information about the protests, told TheDC when asked about participants from wealthier backgrounds. “That said, a (non-random) survey on our site revealed that our visitors literally are the 99% in regards to economic realities.”

The national median home value of $185,400 reflects U.S. Census statistics from the years 2005 through 2009, the last year data were available.

TheDC was able to estimate home values and apartment rents for 659 of the 972 residences. Thirteen were in university dormitories; six were post office boxes; four were addresses in foreign countries. Many addresses proved to be nonexistent, and a few were not provided to police.

TheDC has elected not to publish personally identifying information.

Gracie Ferrell and Meg Gasvoda contributed reporting to this story.

Winston, for crime at OWS, hit Google.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Winston Smith wrote:
I think renting out a hotel room would defeat the point


Not if your goal is to have a protest that is well organized, self-sustaining, planned out and designed to show your commitment and have a shot at convincing people who haven't decided on the issue without discrediting yourself. Pretty much everything OWS has failed to do.

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"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." ~ Q


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